We all know about the balance between guts factor and guts speed. Now there is some serious overpowerment in one area. Metalners, and actually... pixies. Anything with guts equal to pixies or metalners is pretty overpowered. Why? Well at tiger level, and the step right above, Daton's level, there is an increase of 9% to hit from 50. Now, as guts speed goes up, guts factor is supposed to go down and it does, but it has no affect. So at pixie and metalner level they reap the benefits and take no penalty. Since Metalner is on the stronger end of this, it is HUGELY overpowered. So, should monsters with the guts speed of metalner and pixie be banned due to their incredible advantage? Others could still be trained of that species (like metazorl for metalner and a host of other types of pixies) just not monsters on the top two levels.

Oh, by the way, this would outlaw (from what I have so far): Metalner, Loveseeker, Pixie, Futurity, Serenity, Springer, and Ghost. However, if you just did the metalner speed it would get rid of loveseeker and metalner, and even though I don't have all the values as of yet, I can tell you that nothing matches their gut speed. I'm pretty sure nothing else matches pixie either, but if we were to outlaw the #2 guts we would lose an entire main type... ghost.

So my vote, ban Metalner and Loveseeker from the tournaments.

I personally don't see the need to eject Pixies, they have hardly proven themselves to be feared. However, in any case I would also vote to ban Metalner, Chinois, and Loveseeker.

since i spend most of my time training for mr3, i will not "vote". i have seen the power of metalners in tourneys, however. the best thing to do would probably be to get fenrick [and hr and ij, if their tourneys catch on] to make some tourneys "metalner-free", and other ones "metalner-enabled". i would hate to see them totally banned - they are very entertaining monsters.

Ok, I won't be polite. It would be extremely loser to ban any monster for general tourneys. Who cares? The whiners, that's who. I won't start raising only those monsters because of this advantage. Even if everybody else started entering only those. I'm no sissy boy. I'm already surprised metalners got excluded from the Tank tourney. I really hope it doesn't become a custom (I think custom is the right word, I meant habitude in french).

The whiners? I support him and I'm one of the few people that actually enters metalners.
Sissy boy? What exactly do you mean by that PT?

I suppose I should have allowed Metazorl in the tank tourney, but it's a bit late for that.

I am against banning any monsters in tournys. sure, I've seen metalners beat down, but I have seen them lose too. no monster is invincible and all powerfull.

Now, i know i have yet to take part in an MR2 tourney, but i would like add my 2 cents. IMO you guys shouldn't imidiately ban any monsters. I really doubt everyone will suddenly start raising those monsters just for the advantage. If something like that did happen, than, sure ban them, but until it becomes a major problem i suggest you keep the tournies as they are.

Sissy boy: Someone who will not enter tourneys or raise only metalners in fear of someone else entering a metalner in tourneys.

Keep entering the metalners hellraiser, people are bound to get tired of it eventually...

i looked at fen's site, and there are actually more apes and hares including their subs, than there are metalners, so i dont see a problem, especially, since Omni Alien B was the only one i think who won their topurney or round.

this is all from memory, so dont get mad if im wrong

a lot of the "metalners are unfair" argument began with a victory in the 90-100 point range by one of hr's metalners against a fairly strong field in a now-deleted bracket of dp's tourney.

The problem isn't excess amounts of metalners in the tournies, it's just that they have a huge advantage. They have the best chance to hit of all the monsters, having a lead of almost 90% per match against some monsters. The next, pixies, are at about 60%. That means that even over second place metalners have an extra 30% (50% of second place) better chance to hit.

Ok. There are many different votes here. Well, not really. They are about even. But I think that metalners have SOME of the advantage, but not all. Metalners do have weak spots, and I'm sure (From the monsters I've seen on Fen's site) that a metalner can't be that much greater. I have never joined in a tourney myself (I hope to soon) but to banned any of the breeds would'nt be right. A monster is a monster. They are part of the MR2 breeds and I think that no monster should be banned from the tourneys.

well, like i said above, i do not want a complete ban either. but i want the tourneys to survive. when two of the best tourney trainers ever both stand up and say, in effect, "if i decided to train nothing but top-notch metalners, no other breed would win a tourney" i think that carries some weight too.

the ideal solution would be for there to be both open and metalner-free tourneys available. however, i am not sure there are enough tourney trainers to make that a reality.

It wouldn't be the first time a monster was banned from tournaments. The Japanese tournaments totally eliminated fairy hares due to a bug in the Japanese game that made them unbeatable.

Why don't we ban gaboos and others like it that take great advantage from the swim bug?

(Laugh) An unbeatable fairy hare! That's something I'd like to see!

Seriously, perhaps a compromise could be reached -- maybe Metalners could be handicapped so people who really like training them could still enter them, but they wouldn't automatically clean everyone's clock?

I'm with Torey. I think that there should be metalner free tourneys and open metalner tourneys. In tourneys were a metalner would have a great advantage, maybe ban them. Otherwise let'em join.

I don't think that all metalners should be banned, metazorl would still be accepted because they are not overpowered.

What...

Every monster has a good strategy about it. Metalner's strategy unfortunately is easy to find out and use...so almost any can be the utmost best. They can be beaten, if you know it's advantages well enough. Don't just think "Well people raise power Metalners, so I'll raise an Intelligence based monster!" Wrong. Now, trying to beat Hellraiser's Metalners is the hardest thing to do as of now...and he can do better with one. I say it's the hardest thing to beat because of his evilness on perfecting the breed. Taking disadvantages, and working around it to make advantages.

And, I say don't ban them. Ye who uses the best, isn't the best. Sorry to say Hellraiser, but if you keep using Metalners in tournaments...it'll show something.

"Why don't we ban gaboos and others like it that take great advantage from the swim bug?"

.....-_-;; Stat gains have no effect AT ALL on the tournaments. Yes I know that you were just trying to make a point that banning is bad, but your example is just horribly stupid.

Strunks, metalners have more good points then the rest of the monsters. There is no other monster with both excellent guts regen and great techs. Some get close, but none are as good.

Also, I'm not out to win. I've never cared about winning. After seeing trunks somehow win even though he was fairly pathetic metalner-wise, I wanted to see if he just managed a fluke or if metalners really were that good. OAC said they were that good. OAB said so too. Even Fruitt who I thought would suck since he's an S rank without max speed managed to say how great they are. After OmniFruitt (lol) I'm done. I proved what I wanted to prove a long time ago, and after him there is just no point.

Exactly, horribly stupid.

Heh... I remember the first metalner entered in
a tournament. A monster by the name of
Metalloid, Torey put him third in his
predictions... purely because I said he would
be the one to win the tournament, but his stats
weren't as high, so that couldn't be right... but it
was....

no, PT. Your example has absolutely nothing to do with this argument, that is why it is horrible stupid.

And metalloid was even skinny wasn't he?

I was making a suggestion as stupid as the one we are discussing.