Just wondering if a series of MR2 events would be of interest, if they were set up by Guts Regen rate?

They would just allow monsters with one number, say 12, to enter. Obviously, some numbers have a lot more options than others, but I think we could do some of the more populous ones. Anyway, I think this would fix problems with the old 'Tank War' setup -and solve the issue of never seeing certain breeds in tourneys because of low Guts.

Seeing as I play on the PAL version I couldn't
enter (and I'm not good, or at least patient,
enough anyway) but it
sounds like a good idea to me. Although to allow
pure Dragons and Metalners you could put them in
small groups,
i.e 6-8, 9-11, 12-14, 15-17 and 18-19

Nope, groups won't work. Two points of difference pretty much spells the difference between first and last place in most open tourneys.

It has to be the exact number.

BTW, just like with the NA version, some PAL player could organize their own events. (I have always been the host of last resort, we've seen seven other outside groups host events.) I mean hundreds of you PAL players come here and whine at us about it. Why doesn't someone actually host something?

It's quiet hard for Europeans to organiste tournies since most of us live in different countries.

We can only wait until a new Monster Rancher is released(cross fingers) and most probabbly it will have Multiplayer.

What? You guys don't have email or computers in Europe??? Maybe your computers don't support javascript?

Literally hundreds of people from the UK alone have become members of this site, using email and computers: the two main things necessary for tourneys.

Not everyone in the various NTSC/US events lived in the US. We have seen entrants from Canada, Mexico, The Philippines, Singapore, Japan, Brunei, Saudi Arabia and more.

And, having a multiplayer feature doesn't ensure tourneys, as we all saw with MRE & the MRA games. Unless there's a 2P mode allowing comp control on both sides.

You guys might want to learn about tourneys and how they work before dismissing them.

I never dismissed them, I was just stating I
couldn't enter the US tourneys. My main problem
is the fact that
the best monster I ever raised has roughly
780,999,350,450,350,900. And unless people of the
same standard
from Europe could enter, then it just wouldn't
work out. If I could get one to work out it'd be
great, and I
look forward to seeing if there are people out
there who are willing.

How will you ever know if other people in Europe could enter unless you try? Is there a euro site for MR that has a decent amount of traffic? Or a forum? You can host the tournament yourself and post on said sites to get other ranchers interested. Come up with limits such as, monsters can only have combined states of xxxx and xxxx. What I think Lisa is getting at is that if you (and not just you as this is an on going issue) euro players would put in the effort to get a solid tournament going you may very well be surprised by the turn out.

I have gotten some good feedback in chat about the original idea here. There are some good, very different selections of monsters available at each level from 10-18. Nineteen is a bit limited, but, it's the only real problem level.

What we might do is mix up events, so, we start with 18 then, do 12 then 10, then 16, etc.

There's a few monsters I really want to try out, but won't purely because I know their guts regen is likely going to make them lose.

I've got definite interest in this so long as the frequency of events isn't too brutal.

Also, I'm curious what the stance on rehashing monsters would be. I don't really have interest in monsters I've already used, but I may have interest when it comes to monsters I plan to use in a certain upcoming tournament.

Oh god this could get boring, watching Monols fighting Monols in the "18" category and so on. I kind of feel like some monsters were never meant to be bred. In any case guts regeneration is one of only two factors that determine how good a monster is (apart from stats, which we'll assume is always constant in battles that matter), the other being how good the monster's techniques are.

I've found that Mocchi for instance has decent guts but fairly mediocre techs, whereas Bajarl (again I could be wrong, this is just my impression) has slower guts but way better techniques. The reason Metalner is super awesome isn't just because he has the fastest guts regeneration in the game, but also because he has techniques that hit often enough and wither enough to win battles. On balance I'd say guts regeneration is MORE important than the quality of the monster's techs, but still it's not as deterministic as "Monster has better guts = monster will win", etc.

No, generally, the guts regen is the biggest advantage. You can go back and look at tourney data.

Metalner doesn't have more accurate techs than other monsters.

That wasn't what I said actually, my point was that his techs are good enough - if his techs were garbage then it wouldn't matter how good his guts are. Surely there are monsters with very high guts regen who have techs that aren't great, so much so that certain monsters with lower guts regeneration can beat them. I was just saying that a breed with higher guts regeneration doesn't always have a better probability of winning than a breed with lower guts regeneration (certainly every monster in the 6-10 range has a higher chance of winning against a purebreed Dragon, who has the worst guts regeneration, but not necessarily against a Monster with a rate of 11, 12 or 13).

I think with just Metalner banned you could still have healthy tournaments with monsters like Pixie, Ghost (if you were insane enough to train one), Ducken, Undine, etc.

Metalner is banned in the upcoming tourney. The point of my post was that monsters like Pixie, Ghost, Ducken, Undine, etc. (there's not really much etc - Tiger, Naga) are going to dominate the tournament. The monsters I "really want to try out" are well beyond the typical 10 (or even 13 that you mentioned) guts regeneration that you see with these monsters. Lisa understood what I meant.

Of course tech selection counts, though. Just nowhere near as much as guts.

Is only pure Metalner banned, or is Love Seeker also banned (I think they have the same guts)? Surely Metalner/Suezo isn't banned?

Just to correct you, Naga's guts regeneration (while decent) isn't as good as the other monsters, and there are other monsters you didn't mention that have it better. I'll list them all:

Pixie - 7
Ghost - 7
Plant - 8
Hopper - 8
Ducken - 8
Tiger - 9
Undine - 9
Wracky - 9
Niton - 10

There are also monsters (like Naga which you mentioned) with sub-breeds that have guts regeneration rates in these ranges, which expands the list of "playable" monsters a bit more.

I'd like to make it clear that I actually support the idea of tournaments by guts categories (so long as the categories are just a range of guts regeneration rates and not one single rate, because that would be lame otherwise), for exactly the reason you mentioned (ie that you'd never be able to try out lots of really cool monsters) but it seemed from this thread that most people here are in the mindset that battles can be decided by just comparing the guts regeneration rates and seeing which one is higher.

Well, after witnessing over a hundred battles, you learn a bit about them.

You might check out my youtube videos of two duckens battling. One has one point better guts regen.

Yeah, subs are still monsters with guts below 10 though. I wouldn't even include pure Niton at 10 guts reg, though it has subs that qualify too.

What this comes down to is that single guts reg matchups are going to make for the fairest matches, and there's something at each range for everyone. If you open it up to two or three numbers, you're going to see most entries at the low end 'cuz it's an advantage. Just like with an open tourney someone is always gonna go low. Play to win.

Also, single value tourneys = more opportunities for tourneys = generally good IMO.

Your last point is good - more tournaments is always better.

Lisa, your example of two Duckens (I assume Ducken/Suezo and Ducken/Golem?) battling is a little odd in this context because their techs were probably the same. Wouldn't it at least be interesting to discover that say, a certain monster with a guts regeneration rate of x+1 is better than a particular monster with a guts regeneration rate of x because its moves are just better? Would you guys really be that surprised if Jokers won more often than Colorpandoras (maybe because "Real" makes up for that one point of guts, or maybe its moves are just better, I dunno...) just because one has marginally better guts?

I also think it's a bit inconsistent to say, on one hand, that having a range is unfair because the monster with the better guts will win, yet you're okay with the possibility that in say, the "9" category, Undine, Tiger, Wracky, Manna, etc aren't pairwise equally good monsters. Doesn't that also give certain players an inherent advantage? Or am I just not understanding the reasoning behind Lisa's proposed idea?

The ducks did not have the same techs. Watch the videos yourself on youtube. 1 2 3

Tech selection is important, so is form. But, guts regen is the biggest deciding factor. In every event the better guts monster wins -unless an entry is horribly fat or just has basic techs.

There aren't necessarily good/bad techs, either. There are several schools of thought on tech selection. Each school can show examples of why they like their theory. You'd have to sift through winning data to figure it all out. I am certainly not in any place to explain other players' strategy, and, I am certain that other entrants don't want me giving away their plans.

Since it's sort of come up, do you have any plans to record any of the upcoming matches, Lisa? I know it's a lot of effort, but it's cool stuff.

Also, I'm personally fine with saying any monster in a given category is potentially as good as any other monster in said category. Like Lisa said, there's different ideas on tech selection, and that can form the gap. One of the coolest things about MR is just how different you can make your Durahan different from your buddies.

My current problem is that the usb to game system thingy I got on ebay works ok for a while then totally freezes my computer. I'd like to try that live feed site that GM mentioned, but, I don't want to disappoint people. I'd really rather see another host.

I just thought of something (not related to the argument above) - if a tournament like this happens, before you announce it someone's gotta fix the guts regeneration tables shown here:

https://legendcup.com/MRM/discus/messages/12/7265.html

I don't know if a lot of them are wrong, but under "Wracky", it has the pure with a rate of 14 and baby doll with a rate of 8, which is just impossible. Also the table for all the purebreeds at the top of the forum says that Wracky's rate is 9, so it's just a bit of an inconsistency. I'm not sure myself what Wracky's real rate is (I have one frozen on an old file but I'm not going to verify right now) but either way I figured this should be mentioned.

Sorry, the pure is 9. The baby doll is correct at 8.

Well it also shows Wracky/Mock with 13 and Draco Doll with 12... is that possible, given that Dragon has such worse guts than Mock? I guess it could be - I'm not sure how these were tested or entirely how guts regeneration rates are calculated in the game (though seemingly it's some kind of weighted average between the Main and the Sub breed). In any case if tournaments like these are done, someone should probably check the numbers to see if they're all correct.

I have fixed the Wracky chart. The Henger and Phoenix charts are fine. I'll review the rest of Strunks' work in a bit.