Greetings all, I've done more research along the lines that I started in the "The quest for..." thread. This time I've used Monster Rancher 2, since it's newer and more people are interested in it, and I've done a larger range of samples. I'm still using the subcode from a Nirvana Nevermind CD (BMG edition, does not produce the Swimmer normally) taken using CloneCD v.2 As was shown under my Monster Rancher 1 investigations, it was possible to pull the rare from this disc, and I was able to do so in MR2 as well with the same methods.
As with last time, I have modified the PMin, PSec and PFrame values from [Entry 2] to effect the desired changes, and PLBA recalculated to match accordingly with the known formula.
Below are my results, after the table I will give a brief synopsis of my findings. (The bottom entry is the original subcode from the CD unmodified, the second Swimmer is from the values modified to match the Swimmer CCD file posted on this site)
Pmin 2
Psec 2
Pframe 2
PLBA 2
monster
main
sub
Lif
Pow
Int
Ski
Spd
Def
total
Nature
Likes
Dislikes
41
59
0
188775
Spot Saurian
Zuum
Hare
133
166
81
157
156
96
789
Good
Play
Potato
41
59
74
188849
Spot Saurian
Zuum
Hare
133
166
81
157
156
96
789
Good
Meat
Milk
42
0
0
188850
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
80
122
159
128
162
119
770
Good
Milk
Potato
42
23
0
190575
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
71
125
163
125
151
115
750
Good
Play
Cup Jelly
42
23
70
190645
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
71
125
163
125
151
115
750
Good
Potato
Cup Jelly
42
37
74
191699
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
88
127
154
135
150
112
766
Good
Meat
Potato
42
38
0
191700
Swimmer
Mew
???
146
90
105
143
129
126
739
Neutral
Milk
Meat
42
38
70
191770
Swimmer
Mew
???
146
90
105
143
129
126
739
Neutral
Potato
Cup Jelly
42
38
74
191774
Swimmer
Mew
???
146
90
105
143
129
126
739
Neutral
Battle
Meat
42
39
0
191775
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
76
128
155
107
148
127
741
Good
Tablet
Cup Jelly
42
39
74
191849
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
76
128
155
107
148
127
741
Good
Potato
Cup Jelly
42
40
0
191850
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
79
126
162
125
161
108
761
Good
Meat
Potato
42
40
74
191924
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
79
126
162
125
161
108
761
Good
Shoes
Milk
42
41
0
191925
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
85
123
140
115
157
130
750
Good
Cup Jelly
Potato
42
41
74
191999
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
85
123
140
115
157
130
750
Good
Rest
Cup Jelly
42
42
0
192000
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
85
111
157
121
163
133
770
Good
Shoes
Battle
42
43
0
192075
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
96
106
156
120
145
128
751
Good
Meat
Battle
42
44
0
192150
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
70
132
164
126
163
111
766
Good
Fish
Milk
42
45
0
192225
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
87
133
146
129
166
110
771
Good
Milk
Tablet
42
59
0
193275
Rock Hound
Tiger
Golem
93
126
141
117
156
116
749
Good
Potato
Battle
43
0
0
193350
Tyrant
Golem
Dragon
100
242
149
108
92
149
840
Bad
Rest
Tablet
43
38
0
196200
Tyrant
Golem
Dragon
115
229
137
94
97
158
830
Bad
Meat
Battle
43
38
70
196270
Tyrant
Golem
Dragon
115
229
137
94
97
158
830
Bad
Rest
Cup Jelly
59
23
0
267075
Draco Hopper
Hopper
Dragon
61
125
163
175
141
85
750
Bad
Play
Potato
As you can see, when I modified the PMin, the result was a new Main and Sub type monster (possibly just new main, with corresponding subtype tables for that main type). Modifications of the PSec resulted in a new set of stats for the monster (provided PMin remained constant). PFrame did not seem to have any affect when modified. I did not try manipulations of PLBA that do not fit with the calculated values from PMin, PSec and PFrame.
Also, the rare monster that can be found on this disc only showed up during a 1 second range.
I know it has been mentioned by Quincunx that likes and dislikes are generated randomly at the shrine, I just felt like including the ones I got with my monsters here. (some of the Rock Hounds seem to like to chew on shoes.)
Hopefully this helps the rest of you who are working along this line. Some areas of interest that I did not get to with this research, and would like to see investigated or investigate myself are modifications to the TocEntries under [Disc] and PMin under [Entry 1].
Good Luck and Happy Ranching "
By Enigma on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 07:24 pm:
Greetings all, I've been back at it again. This time the disc in question is my copy of Beck: Mellow Gold (BMG edition) which produces the rare Magnet (Henger/???) in MR1, but a Mum Mew in MR2.
This time I only modified the PSec value from Entry 2. I was unable to manufacture the mythical Moo, but the data gathered can still be used for comparing starting stats with altered .CCD files.
TocEntries
Pmin 1
Pmin 2
Psec 2
Pframe 2
PLBA 2
monster
main
sub
Lif
Pow
Int
Ski
Spd
Def
total
Nature
Likes
Dislikes
15
12
47
30
60
213660
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
104
71
115
156
152
129
727
Bad
Wool Ball
Battle
15
12
47
31
60
213735
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
102
78
98
156
170
103
707
Bad
Fish
Meat
15
12
47
32
60
213810
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
113
83
112
140
160
116
724
Bad
Cup Jelly
Milk
15
12
47
33
60
213885
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
109
74
112
164
156
99
714
Bad
Potato
Tablet
15
12
47
34
60
213960
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
112
82
113
159
149
117
732
Bad
Rest
Meat
15
12
47
35
60
214035
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
113
87
99
142
168
119
728
Bad
Candy
Milk
15
12
47
36
60
214110
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
116
77
97
162
159
118
729
Bad
Meat
Cup Jelly
15
12
47
37
60
214185
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
117
89
100
163
158
104
731
Bad
Fish Bone
Battle
15
12
47
38
60
214260
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
124
71
93
142
175
120
725
Bad
Fish Bone
Tablet
15
12
47
39
60
214335
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
105
90
101
135
156
119
706
Bad
Fish
Potato
15
12
47
40
60
214410
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
108
88
108
153
169
100
726
Bad
Rest
Meat
15
12
47
41
60
213485
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
114
85
86
143
165
122
715
Bad
Playmate
Potato
15
12
47
41
60
214485
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
114
85
86
143
165
122
715
Bad
Rest
Potato
15
12
47
42
60
214560
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
114
73
103
149
171
125
735
Bad
Candy
Meat
15
12
47
43
60
214635
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
125
68
102
148
153
120
716
Bad
Playmate
Meat
15
12
47
44
60
214710
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
99
94
110
154
171
103
731
Bad
Meat
Potato
15
12
47
45
60
214785
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
116
95
92
157
174
102
736
Bad
Tablet
Meat
15
12
47
46
60
214860
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
109
73
88
147
173
127
717
Bad
Fish
Battle
15
12
47
47
60
214935
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
126
69
105
158
147
108
713
Bad
Battle
Meat
15
12
47
48
60
215010
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
118
77
87
146
158
129
715
Bad
Play
Potato
15
12
47
49
60
215085
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
99
96
116
138
163
102
714
Bad
Rest
Potato
15
12
47
50
60
215160
Mum Mew
Mew
Pixie
107
72
104
147
173
111
714
Bad
Play
Milk
The purple entry above corresponds to Lisa's copy of Mellow Gold that does not produce a rare in either game. Blue is for my copy of Mellow Gold. And the red is for where I messed up and used an incorrect value for PLBA, but that had no affect on the monster created (as can be seen by the entry immediately below it with identical stats).
Unfortunately, it does not seem likely that the Moo monster can be gotten from this CD, as I doubt the different pressings would vary in length by up to 10 or more seconds in any direction (mine and Lisa's varied by 2 seconds), without additional or fewer tracks. And if that's the case, the odds of finding the rare by this method are astronomically small.
Perhaps some day I'll finish out the full minute for a complete set of Mum Mew's off this disc.
G¥d luck and happy ranching "
By Quincunx on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 03:34 am:
Enigma: You said "I know it has been mentioned by Quincunx that likes and dislikes are generated randomly at the shrine, I just felt like including the ones I got with my monsters here. (some of the Rock Hounds seem to like to chew on shoes.)"
Somehow I missed this bit earlier. Is it possible that likes and dislikes are generated from a list of possibilities, one of which is [breed-specific item] and each main breed (in the case of shoes, Tiger) has its own breed-specific item? For instance, just as possibilities, Tigers could have shoes as a possible like, while Pixies might have perfume as a possible like.
Methinks I previewed a post and forgot to send it. Anyway, the point of it was that another thread says that the MR1 Shrine is specific to the frame when checking rares (a disc producing Magnet will produce a Suezo with one frame of difference in either direction), while from your data, the MR2 Shrine appears to be specific only to the second (as evidenced by the three Swimmers). So the two Shrine programs are different in that way, apparently.
And I was looking at those statistics for the Mum Mews trying to find some sort of pattern. I looked at differences between sequential stats, differences between those differences, and differences between those differences. I looked at the remainders in mod 2, mod 3, mod 4, mod 5 and mod 7. I made parallel one-dimensional scattergrams...
...and I can't see a pattern. Either there's a pseudorandom number table involved at some point (in which each original number gets translated to a different number), or there's some tricky math (can a PSX do trig functions on the fly?), or I'm just missing something which would be painfully obvious if someone told me the answer.
In line with my first research post, I notice that the highest value of any stat for the 21 different Mum Mews is never more than 30 higher than the lowest value for that stat. And what still baffles me and defies logic is that this holds true even for the composites; they range from 706 to 736.
Actually, Quincunx, the MR1 shrine is also only exact to the second, not the frame when choosing rares. This was demonstrated in my "The quest for...." thread, where I modified the Nirvana Nevermind subcode to produce the Karaoke monster in MR1.
And for the stat range, perhaps there is a set starting value for all stats, and some algorithm for adding pseudorandom amounts to each stats up to a given pseudorandom amount (that never varies by more than a set amount, apparently 30 for Rock Hounds, Mum Mews, Melon Suezos and KnightMocchi's, about 45 for Frozen Gaboos, according to yours and my stat charts). But as for determining what those stats are, that's for someone with a lot more free time on their hands, I guess.
Monster likes and dislikes do seem to be from a predetermined list, at least for each main, with a lot of generic items that can be on all lists, and some specific to the race. My Rock Hounds never asked for a Playmate or Fish Bone, and the Mum Mew's never wanted some Shoes to chew on.
Perhaps the next big project would be to create a completely controlled .CCD file and see what all monsters can be created from it.
OK. I was just referencing the post by John Hawley on Friday, July 6, 2001 - 07:11 pm from the thread The Laboratory: Ongoing Research : How the MR2 Shrine Program Generates Stats for Monsters from CDs: Initial Research. As I do not own MR1, I can neither confirm nor disprove anything.
As for stat numbers, if there's a pseudorandom number table of, say, 50 entries (i.e. 0 becomes 17, 1 becomes 38, 2 becomes 6, etc.) involved, this is going to make cracking the stats ridiculously hard.
Even worse if it's not a one-to-one function (I forget the mathematical term) where, say, inputs of 4 and 37 both yield an output of 16, because then working backwards, that 16 that we see could be either a 4 or a 37 originally.