Ok, I ran the subcode tonight from BAM4 and its really different than Backdraft. They DO both make Jell mains in MR1. And yes, I shrined the CDs again in MR2 to confirm Cinderbird from both, same stats.

My only thought is, what if they both appear in the chart for rares, but BAM4 was put in for the Japanese market? I started thinking about this, because they make the rares for Japan based on what's popular there. Then they have (or are nice enough to) to quickly change the chart for the US before its released here. That Sueiki Suezo and a comment from Torey made me think about it, since an Australian music CD makes Sueki Suezo. Since the PAL version of MR2 in Australia is just called "MR", and MR1 was never released in Australia, of course the Japanese gave them a way to get a Sueki! (The only mystery is if a US MR1 makes a Sueki in the PAL version of MR2 too.)

The BAM series is realy popular in Japan, more so than the US. And that US pressing of Backdraft probably never made the J-Pop charts....just a theory....

Another weird fact, they both make Suezo's "Lick" card in MRBCepII, but the game does not give the identicality warning. (See the MRBCepII Lab for notes on that game's ability to distinguish identical CDs.)

Lisa: Brilliant observations! Perhaps there are multiple CDs in some cases that make the rares, because the programmers chose (or forgot) not to remove the original rare CDs from the Japanese version when they localized the game for the US (and Australian) markets.

I like your theory. One question: Is the version of Bust a Move 4 that creates Cinderbird a Japanese or US version?

Mine is US version. I don't know anyone with the Japanese verion to compare, but I will ask the asian system owners I know.

The only games that I own copies of both the US and Japanese versions of are the MR games. They do make different monsters in the US games, than in the Japanese versions. (Example: Monster Farm [1] makes a gaboo/tiger in MR2, but makes the Sueki in MF2) But, the US version of both Mf1&2 had major revisions before hitting the US. In MF/R1 there are 2 rare monsters made from magazine CDs, in the US version they have the US magazine logos on them, in Japan, I have no idea what they looked like, but I will bet they had Japanese magazine logos. MF/R 2 had the pocketstation reworking, and the cigarettes & alcohol changed. MF2 makes a striped shell Niton in MR2.

Maybe BAM4's text changes to English didn't affect the subcode at all. Or, maybe it wasn't BAM4 that was suppposed to make the rare. (I wish I had a Japanese rares list for MR2 right now...) Maybe the localisation to US altered the subcode so that it happens to be the same as some other Japanese game!

Lisa: Very interesting. Were the MR1 magazine CD rares crafted as part of a promotional gimmick? As in, Tecmo said to Electronic Gaming Monthly, "We'll make your monthly promo CD have a branded monster in our game if you'll promote Monster Rancher in your magazine that issue"? That way, Monster Rancher gets publicity, and the magazine gets publicity and "must-buy" status for that issue. It's a cross-promotion capitalist dream at its best.

Then again, I don't know that I'd want a monster with the EGM logo stamped on it. Just personal preference, I guess.

And don't go out of your way on this, Lisa. You've got enough to deal with since you've got MFPS2. «grin»

Lisa: I burned your BAM4 subcode and it worked just fine. All stats matched exactly to my Backdraft Cinderbird. And both of them to your Jells in MR1. Yet more fun.

Quincunx: Yes, they were promotional gimmicks, but the mags were NextGeneration and Ultra Game Players. Ultra's Milky way was nice, but I agree with you on NextGen's Two Tone.

Also, going WAAYY out on a limb here, with no Japanese CD list to go by: If BAM4 was the intended game in Japan for the monster, then it kinda makes sense if you recall that BAM is referred to as the "soap bubble" game. (The icon on the memory card is bubbles.) Anyway, soap bubbles make me think of soaping up and bathing. What if in Japan, Cinderbird represented a Phoenix who took a bath?

John: I was just using Electronic Gaming Monthly as a hypothetical name (even though it is an actual magazine), but thanks for filling in the details. And didn't Ultra Game Players cease publication a few years ago? (If so, guess the promotional gimmick didn't work.)

And Lisa: I'm sitting here grinning because, as much of a stretch as your idea seemed at first, it actually does make sense. Clever!

I now have some difinitive answers, and a new mystery!

I decided to try BAM4 and the Backdraft STK in MF2 (both copies make Cinderbird for me in MR2.), just now realizing that I could use my copy of MF2 in Japanese PS2. (My Japanese PSX bit the dust long ago, and so while these original posts were made, I couldn't test anything.) Anyway, here's what I got:
BAM4: Tiger/Jell
Backdraft: CP/CP

And, I also just got a couple of MF2 strategy guide books, and one came with a CD that makes a rare (Caloriena) in MF2. In MR2 it makes a Gaboo/Tiger.

So, in conclusion, I now believe that all the Japanese rare shrine settings were removed for the US, and whatever we get as rares we were pretty much intended to get. The remaining mystery is why 2 radically different discs (BAM4 & Backdraft) both make Cinderbird.

even though This is old, I found that the BAM4 subcode also makes tiger/jell in the PAL game monster rancher.