• Ramones: Mondo Bizarro UPC 0-0881-10615-2-4 January 2 - 09:13 pm
• Ramones: Mondo Bizarro Columbia House Pressing UPC 0-20831-4474-2-66 January 2 - 09:25 pm

As an example of researching CD subcode data, I thought I'd present this example.I have two copies of the Ramones CD, Mondo Bizarro. One is the regular pressing (I think) the other is the Columbia House pressing. Here's the raw info:

this is interesting, lisa. thanx for the info.

on the one hand, the total time and tracks are very similar for the 2 cds. however, once it is broken down as you did, the two cds have a significant number of differences. starting with entry 2, the 2 cds are different in psec, pframe and plba. one would think that pframe and plba is only different where psec [length of a given track, i am assuming] is different, but in entry 3 [looks like a silent space between two tracks], psec is identical, but pframe and plba are different.

i am assuming that the average listener would not be able to differentiate between the 2 cds. it looks like the difference between the two is that on one, some tracks are a second or two longer, and some are a second or two shorter. when broken down to component parts, however, the two are quite different.

so i'm guessing that different games focus on different fields for different attributes of the monster. i am also remembering that things like monster type and stat number can be the same - like cds with different track length, and component attributes can nonetheless give you the same monster, or the same starting life, etc.

makes it quite a complex puzzle. again, thanx for the info.

Thanks for the analysis! Yes, these 2 CDs are indistinguishable to the listener, that was partly why I chose them as an example. I wanted to find a pair of CDs that were as much alike as possible, in order to figure out where the game looks for differences. (For example, in creating stats.)

Hope this added a bit of insight into just how difficult it is to figure out what exactly the game looks for, and why I can't just tell people what data to use to burn their own!

-And a note to the superstitious, both of these CDs have the exact same title, cover art, and art on the CD itself. So, once again, the title of a CD has nothing to do with what monster it makes!

I slated the MR1 monsters over to MR2, and made an interesting discovery: the stats were very different than for monsters made from the CD in the shrine (possibly because there's a different main breed), and the composite is higher! Both monsters were frozen straight from shrine, no raising, no items.

oh! lisa, you edited the main message - i didnt see that mr1 tech list table there before...dont think im hallucinating.^_^ that adds one more variable to the already variable-rich mess.

btw, as the result of a chat last night, i am searching my cd collection for any cd that makes the exact same monster in both mr1 and mr2. they are quite rare - ive searched about 100 and only found two that make the same main/different sub. if anyone is curious, or thinks they can help, please feel free to join in.

Yes, thought it made a neater presentation. I'm doing some slating experiments now. One thought about this, and the whole slating mystery (why some raised monsters slate higher than others), might be that they slate better if their stats are in line with their starting ratio just like your combo info. Since straight off a CD is about as close to perfect a ratio as you can get, they slate relatively well. Remember, in the MR1 days we knew nothing about this stuff and raised unbalanced monsters.

that is the point of a thread with carl carlisle and richard ryley over at tecmo awhile back - that the combining theory [that good combos come from monsters whose stats are similar and comparable to their baseline ratios] might be equally applicable to slating, as you express in your message. if the boxes and the attic cooperate with me this weekend, i may have some time to do some of those slating things we talked about in chat the other night.

carl has done a lot of looking into slating - paging carl carlisle, please!

out of my 500+ cd collection, only 3 shared the same main type in mr1 and mr2. none were exactly the same.

2 of the cds were available[the other must be at the office] so i ran them. the first is islands, by king crimson

game	monster	lif	pow	int	ski	spd	def
mr1	melon[suezo/dino]	116	114	141	155	129	116
mr2	green suezo[suezo/plant]	140	99	155	130	96	110
mr2[slated]	melon suezo[suezo/zuum]	91	131	164	145	102	111

composite 744 for the slated melon suezo; 730 for the green suezo.

the other disc, ives piano works[disc one] had an even larger slating advantage:

game	monster	lif	pow	int	ski	spd	def
mr1	naga[naga/naga]	127	160	57	151	113	122
mr2	striker[naga/tiger]	136	160	88	174	119	100
mr1[slated]	naga[naga/naga]	132	176	105	165	121	142

composite mr2 = 777; composite slated mr1 = 841.

Wow! Thanks! This is still a very small sample, but we're at 100% on it; slated monsters (unraised, no items) have higher stats than their shrined MR2 counterparts from the same CD.

well, so far the tentative conclusion is also very small...you get a slight stat advantage when slating monsters with the same main type in both mr1 and mr2, instead of shrining them in mr2, so long as you dont care what subtype you end up with. remember, some of the stat advantage may be due to the differeing subtype in my two cd sample [although not with the ramones].

I just need to check more CDs, of all types. This is a project where a few more volunteers would be helpful!

Ms. Shock: If it helps at all, visit https://pub37.ezboard.com/fmrcddbfrm1. "Of What From CDs" is the topic you're looking for. It should answer some of your questions.

Yes, this is a complex puzzle. But so was sending a man to the moon. All puzzles can be solved, given enough time.