Hello. I'd like to talk about MR4's Shrining process. Now, it's common knowledge that most PC CD-ROMs will yield a Plant/Plant (I think that's it, correct me if I'm wrong on this one), but there are a select few that will result in other monsters. Recently I did a little experiment. I generated three monsters using three different PC CD-ROMs. The CDs were Dungeon Keeper 2, Theme Hospital, and Sonic CD. Dungeon Keeper 2 and Theme Hospital both generated a Plant/Plant. Sonic CD, however, generated a different type of monster (although what monster it was I don't recall at the moment). Some of you might know this, but the PC version of Sonic CD has separate tracks other than Track 1 (the Data Track) which are playable on a CD player. Dungeon Keeper 2 and Theme
Hospital do not. So, my theory is, maybe the separation of data into tracks affects the generation process. Also, the data on PS2 discs
is arranged in layers, which is a little like tracks, so that might merit looking into...

The only plant I've ever gotten (Plant/? = Mushitan (sp?)) was from my Shadowbane CD.

The rest(PC) were pretty random on my end. But I haven't taken the time to list them.

Waaiiit a minute, if in MR 4 computer CDs give mushtans due to the fact that a PS2 cant read CDs as good as a ps, then what about MR3? does it give the samething as always? I cant find out myself because I cant find my game, so, what happens if you use a computer cd to get a monster in MR3?

No, this is may little way of disagreeing.

I'd have to redo all my computer game CDs, but I'm fairly certain that they don't all, or even majority, give plants.

thats ok, I just wanna know what happens if a ps2 reads a Computer game when playing Mr3.

It's been known for a while that PC discs that have music tracks make a variety of monsters, but none of us has really quantified it.

Whoops, you're right. It's Mushtan (Plant/???) that comes from PC CD-ROMs, not Plant. Anyway, there are still some questions unanswered, which is why I cooked up another little experiment yesterday. I shrined up four discs:

Freedom Force (PC game burned on a CD-R)
Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al Franken, Disc 1 (book-on-CD burned on a CD-R)
Need For Speed III: Hot Pursuit (PC CD-ROM)
Sonic CD (PC CD-ROM, has audio tracks that can be played on a stereo)

Firstly, let's break down which category each disc belongs in. Freedom Force is a single-track CD-R disc. The book-on-CD is a multiple-track CD-R disc (burned that way so that it can be played in a stereo). Need For Speed III: Hot Pursuit is a single track CD-ROM, and Sonic CD is a multiple-track CD-ROM. So, here's a slightly updated list of the discs:

Freedom Force (CD-R, single)
Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al Franken, Disc 1 (CD-R, multi)
Need For Speed III: Hot Pursuit (CD-ROM, single)
Sonic CD (CD-ROM, multi)

The selected discs cover both of the possible values for the variables I was testing (data separation and media type, in case you forgot). Now, let's see what each disc yielded:

Freedom Force -- Mushtan (Plant/???)
Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al Franken, Disc 1 -- Ripper (Ripper/Ripper)
Need For Speed III: Hot Pursuit -- Mushtan (Plant/???)
Sonic CD -- Plant (Plant/Plant)

First off, notice that both the Freedom Force CD-R and the Need For Speed III CD-ROM produced the same monster, Mushtan. The data on the two discs was not identical; ergo, we can safely say that medium does not dictate generation results. However, since the same monster came from two discs with completely different data stored within, we can determine that the data on a disc is not a factor if the disc is single-track.

The Al Franken CD-R (which. lest we forget, is a multi-track disc) produced a Ripper. We already know that medium is not a factor (unless, as Lisa Shock has pointed out, there is internal data specific to the medium itself), so this result can probably be credited to both the multi-track attribute of the disc and the data on the disc itself. Sonic CD yielded a Plant. The differentiation in end result between two CD-ROMs reinforces my point that medium does not dictate monster type. Since Sonic CD, a multi-track CD-ROM, yielded different results than Need For Speed III, a single-track CD-ROM, we can be fairly certain that data separation is a factor. *musing* Perhaps the data separation by track is so basely similar to the optical layering method of separation used on PS2 discs that they're treated the same way...Oh well. We can see that tracks are a factor in monster generation.

As soon as my ferschlugginer CD burner decides to work right, I'll see what happens when multi-track data is compressed to a single track and vice versa.

Sorry for the long post.

Remember that the game produces Mushtans for any disc the system cannot read. You will get Mushtans from Phillips CD-i discs, etc. -in addition to any PC CD-ROMs the game cannot read. This is a workaround for the US version of the game, because in the Japanese version, the game freezes up in the shrine when it cannot read a disc. I personally submitted this as a bug report last summer. See:

Monster Rancher Metropolis: Monster Rancher 4 Archive (PS2): Monster Farm 4 (Spoilers!): Reviews, Information on Gameplay, Etc. : My First Bug Report

So, trying to make some sort of sense out of discs atht make Mushtans is pretty pointless. If it's a disc that the PS2 cannot read because of the system limitations, anti-pircy measures, or regional lockouts then a Mushtan is made.

wow lisa, it seems youve been doing youre homework! man, that must really suck when youve trained a super powerful monster and your goin to a shrine to get a monster, then your game freezes cuz it can't read the data. heh.

If the game freezes im sure you can just open the CD tray and put in another one.
Ive done it on many occasions. My ps2 is not what it used to be

really? I never knew that(until now). But it would suck if it froze while your NOT in the shrine. my ps has done this sooo many times That i got a hammer and...well you know, then I went and bought a new one.

No Eric, in MF4 (and MF3) if the game freezes because it cannot read a disc, nothing will 'fix' it. You have to turn off the PS2 and re-start it, thus losing anything you have done since the last save. I tested this well over 100 times, with many, many types of discs. It's the way the Japanese game is programmed. The US game is different, it has a default monster to replace the freeze-up problem.

...god bless the U.S.A. is all I have to say. BTW that really blows. big time.

Hmm, interesting. I hadn't known that about the Mushtans, thanks Lisa. I think it's safe to say that the PS2 generally can't read one-track discs, no? Anyway, my theory is that the separation of data by tracks (for instance, the main data for Sonic CD on track 1, and in-game music on other tracks) is so basely similar to the separation of data by optical layering (one layer of the disc is game data, one is FMV, another is audio, etc.) used by PS2 discs that the PS2 treats them as the same kind of disc. Maybe I could try making a monster from a "hit single" music CD and see if that makes a Mushtan. I'm definitely going to do some experimentation with newer models of CD-RW that use optical layering. Also, as I said before, I'm going to see what happens when multi-track data is converted to single-track data, and when single-track data is converted to multi-track data.

...actually, if you re-read previous shrining dating back to MR2,
much of the basics are the same. (Re: single vs. multi track and
swapping).

It's interesting to note that second-session music CDs may
work. Of course, have you guys checked to see if the PC CDs
listed above have the music session as the FIRST session? That
would be more interesting.

If i ever gain extra time, I might look into it.

BTW, again, it has nothing to do with "the PS2 can't read it!".
sigh. that's like putting in deisel into your Honda Accord and
saying that the pump isn't dispensing it correctly. Yes, the PS2
can read it fine. and if MR4 wanted, it could shrine it. (This can
be proven by slipping the same disc for shrining under MR2 on
the same PS2). For one, data CDs are (even noted in the
documentation!) not allowed--they will always produce
Mushatans. Mac, PC, UNIX, whatever. Not-gonna-work.

Further, even if it couldn't "read" it, it isn't the PS2 itself that
can't read it--it's the software. Previous posters are correct--if
the CD cannot be read, it hangs up the game.

Silly, silly researchers.

--Cats, the original researcher.

(about the first-session-is-music-and-why-it's-interesting): I
forgot to note. It would be interesting to see if the first session
is Audio. The reason: it would help deter piracy. (It's more
difficult to copy the CD. Yes, it can be done--we all know that.
But it does make it a lot more difficult).

And, brakfanatic, I have no idea who told you the PS2 can't read 1 track CDs, but that's just wrong. A lot of my CD single collection is one-track discs and they work just fine.

Okay, kiddies, I spent some time researching.

GIVEN:
a single MP3 (Rivers by Skinny Puppy: 4:48 playing time, 8.8MB)
a 10MB volume (alpha)
a 20MB volume (beta)

CASES:
1. a known multimode CD (Marilyn Manson's Mechanical
Animals)

2. a multisession data CD: alpha as first session, beta as
second

3. a multisession audio/data CD: Rivers audio on the first
session, Rivers data on the second

4. a multisession audio/data CD: Rivers data on the first
session, Rivers audio on the second

5. a multisession audio/data CD: Rivers audio on the first
session, Rivers audio on the second

6. a single session audio CD: Rivers audio

7. a single session audio CD: Rivers audio as track one, Rivers
audio as track two

RESULTS:
1. unknown. I suspect it's a Phoenix--it's the only species I
haven't unlocked yet, and it stated that i needed to attain a
higher rank to unlock it. (I didn't see that CD listed in the CD
db)

2. Mushatan (Plant + Special)

3. MochiMonk (Golem + Suezo)

4. Mushatan

5. MochiMonk

6. MochiMonk

7. TriEye (Garu + Suezo)

CONCLUSION:
As with MR2, the first session is a huge (if only!) factor in
determining the monster. As I had earlier theorized, if the CD
has an initial audio session, it is that session that allows a data
CD to be used in the shrine. The last case shows that it wasn't a
matter of "adding" the tracks together that resulted in the
monster--a single audio track of about 4:48 minutes results in a
MochiMonk.

This is why the data CDs above will result in a valid monster, and
not a Mushatan.

--Cats