Interesting Results From Combining! (Tech Carryover)

Monster Rancher Metropolis: Monster Rancher 1 Archive (PSOne): Combining: Interesting Results From Combining! (Tech Carryover)
By Lisa Shock on Tuesday, August 22, 2000 - 11:34 pm:

I've done a few combining experiments, and had some excellent results in terms of tech carryover!
It all started while I was trying to pass time in the game before Vitamin D showed up. I raised 2 jells from the same CD. I didn't do anything special. (My MR1 memory card had frozen, so I restarted the game at an early poverty-stricken stage.) They battled a bit for money, went on training and lived 5y 8mo, and 5y 10mo respectively. I decided to combine them. They had 6 techs,Stab,Whip,Slap,Cannon,Flyswatter,and Insecticide. Their stats:
LifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
204282252369259405
234272242339273381

I was warned that it was a bad combo. The results were:
LifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
1009018913090130

-not too remarkable....until I looked at the techs. All 6 had carried over!

Next I decided to raise that monster as a money maker and see about some more combos! I'm in the middle of that right now, currently I'm raising 2 plants to see how they combine with each other. However, occasionally I save my game and check on potential combos. Here are some mid-project reports.
I raised the jell, had it aquire 1 more tech, and mostly used it as a money monster. I raised the first plant specifically to try and aquire techs. At three years I tried a combo for fun. The jell had 7 techs (added spit) and the plant had 5: Toxic Nectar, Jab, Steady Jab, Slap and Hook.
typeLifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
Jell177335224363217220
Plant224280195327178279

I was told it was a nice combo, but there were only 3 techs for the resulting Naga/Jell.
LifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
104150152143123104

Overall, unremarkable results, so I didn't save this result, and kept raising the two monsters.
At 4y 6mo, I tried the combo again. The jell had the same 7 techs, the plant had added one, Seed Gun.
typeLifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
Jell180400242428239225
Plant230335209402232284

Once again I was told it was a nice combo. The result was a Jell/Plant. Results:
LifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
174142143204123190

And all 7 Jell Techs carried over!

I will continue, I need to raise a second plant to combine with the first, to see if I can get plant techs to carry over. Right now, it looks like if an offspring is the same main type as a parent it can get all the techs!This is important because I suspect that training in MR1 takes lifespan from your monster, like errantry does in MR2. In terms of trying to max out a monster, the less time spent at the training grounds, the better!

Clearly, I'm not doing very well in stat carryover, but I'll look into that too.


By Eagle_Fierce on Wednesday, August 23, 2000 - 05:20 pm:

Great report, Lisa! I haven't done any combining, yet, but when I do, all of my monsters have at least 8 techs, so it shoulnd't be too difficult. As for "Training," I'm not so certain that it does reduce lifespan, though I have only done limited research on that, and lack the GS or any other form of device to certify, so I can't be sure. Interesting discovery, though...I can hardly wait for your findings on all of this, Lisa. ^_^


By Lisa Shock on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 12:01 am:

Just a quick update. I started raising plant #2, and tried a few combinations that I did not save.

I combined my retired plant with 9 techs with the other one at 1 year, told it was a bad combo, (these are both Plant/Naga off Tail of The Sun PSX) and I got a fairly unremarkable naga (the #2 option in the list)with 3 techs. I tried resetting 4 times and got the exact same result. I don't think combining is as random in MR1 as in MR2.

I raised the second plant for a few years and at 3y 1m tried combining again. The second monster had 6 techs. Once again I was told the combo was bad, but this time I got a plant. It had stats about 200 composite total higher than a monster from CD and 6 techs. The interesting thing was, the six techs were not identical to the younger monster (plant #2), there were 3 techs from way down the chart that only the first monster with 9 techs had aquired. (including the super-deadly face drill) It was as if I had gotten the best six possible! (I think the three basic techs are required in carry over.)

I'm still raising monster #2, and will give a final combo result with numbers in a day or two.


By Lisa Shock on Saturday, August 26, 2000 - 10:51 pm:

Ok, it's not as simple as I had hoped. My first Plant (plant/naga) was frozen at the first retirement warning. It has 9 techs and the following stats:

LifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
235403223461289314

I combined it with Plant #2 (plant/naga, same CD)
two more times. I tried at the first retirement warning for plant #2 at 8 techs and these stats:
LifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
302400224377236301

I got a plant/plant with only 5 techs! Worse than the attempt in my previous message! Stats were:
LifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
180100244130110140


I'm going to do more research on this subject with more types of monsters, focusing on pure-breeds for a bit.
By Kurasu Soratobu on Sunday, August 27, 2000 - 09:46 am:

Makes me wonder if MR2 has the same sort of thing/. I mean, a combining month, so to speak. At least that one'd be easy to test. Freeze two critters, combine 'em one month, try the next, try the next, etc. etc. ad infantum.

Actually, in MR1, I managed to get very good at passing moves on, but I never mastered the stat-passing. A Ballon with 260 skill was my greatest achievement in that area. However, I found that if you took them out as soon as you got the first 'retire him' warning, the moves seemed to cross over a lot easier (at least for me).


By Lisa Shock on Sunday, August 27, 2000 - 03:32 pm:

Here's the results of 1 year of combining. I sarted with 2 Bad Seeds (plant/naga):

monsterLifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.Techs
Plant #12354032234612893149
Plant #23024002243772363018

Every time I combined I had the exact same %s, regardless of the order I combined them. And I was told it was a bad combo.
type%
Plant52
Jungler26
Bad Seed18
Naga4


Every time I combined, the stats were identical for a particular type of offspring: all Junglers had identical stats, all Bad Seed had identical stats, and all Plants had identical stats. This seems to indicate that if you are seeking better stats on a particular breed, you'll have to train or work one monster a bit before combining again!
However, the techs would change. Here's the stat results.
monsterLifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.Total
Plant (plant/plant)180100244130110140904
Jungler (naga/plant)150130264140110110904
Bad Seed (plant/naga)14013024414011070834

(I never got a pure Naga)

Here are the tech results:
monthcombo ordermonstertech info
AugustPlant #2+#1Jungler3 basic
August1+2Jungler3 basic
September2+1Jungler3 basic
September1+2Jungler3 basic
October2+1Plant5
October1+2Plant5 but different from previous
November2+1Plant5
November1+2Plant5 but different from previous
December2+1Plant5
December1+2Plant4
January2+1Plant5
January1+2Plant6
February2+1Bad Seed4
February1+2Plant5
March2+1Bad Seed6
March1+2Plant6
April2+1Plant5
April1+2Plant3 basic
May2+1Plant4
May1+2Plant5
June2+1Plant5
June1+2Plant7
July22+1Bad Seed4
July21+2Plant6
July32+1Plant4
July31+2Plant6
July42+1Jungler3 basic
July41+2Jungler3 basic


As you can see, I got the best tech carryover in June, with 7! I also tried 3 different weeks in July, each with different results. So I believe that the April as best combining month is a myth. It seems to change week to week.

I did try these same combos in the same order several times during the same week and got identical results, therefore, I don't think there's really anything random in the combos during the same week.

In conclusion I have several guidelines:

1) If a monster has the same main as one of its parents there is a better chance of tech carryover. (Please note that one plant offspring did just get 3 techs, the occurance rate was low but possible) If a monster does not have the same main type as a parent, it will start with 3 basic techs only.
2) Changing the order in which you select the monsters can change the results in terms of type of offspring and tech carryover.
3) If you try to combine two monsters during different weeks, you will get varying results in offspring type and tech carryover.
4) If the parent monsters' stats remain unchanged, the stats of offspring will vary by breed, but all offspring of the same breed will have identical stats, regardless of week or order of combining parents.


My recommendation is to try your combos in different order on different weeks to maximize tech carryover.

(I'm now working on raising 2 pure Dinos, to do the same experiment and see if purebreeds give better results!)
By Lisa Shock on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 10:29 pm:

In an effort to debunk the April as best month for combining, I did one final experiment. I took 2 pure dinos from CD and raised them cocurrently and froze them. I tried combining them several times during their lives, and got the best stats when combined during their prime, before any retirement warning. (I've misplaced the paper I wrote it down on, but the offspring of these guys at prime had two stats over 240 and one at 200.)The final stats at retirement, and the offspring's:

monsterLifePow.Int.SkillSpeedDef.
Dino #1220334235430216155
Dino #2176308205350325202
offspring100120100140100100

I was told it was a bad combo. The offspring always had the same stats while the parents' were at that level.
I then combined every week for 6 months, trying the combo once, then reversing the order each week. I'm only logging the number of techs carried over. There was a lot of variation in the particular stats which were carried over.
WeekCombo OrderTechs
Jan 11+24
Jan 12+16
Jan 21+25
Jan 22+15
Jan 31+25
Jan 32+14
Jan 41+24
Jan 42+14
Feb 11+25
Feb 12+15
Feb 21+27
Feb 22+16
Feb 31+25
Feb 32+15
Feb 41+26
Feb 42+15
March 11+26
March 12+14
March 21+24
March 22+15
March 31+25
March 32+15
March 41+26
March 42+17
April 11+25
April 12+13
April 21+26
April 22+14
April 31+25
April 32+15
April 41+26
April 42+16
May 11+25
May 12+14
May 21+27
May 22+17
May 31+26
May 32+15
May 41+26
May 42+16
June 11+25
June 12+16
June 21+26
June 22+16
June 31+25
June 32+15
June 41+26
June 42+16

So, April was not any more advatageous than any other month.

Then I tried another experiment. I just kept trying the combo over and over in week 4 of June. I got a different tech carryover result almost every time! Looks like the different weeks have nothing to do with tech carryover at all! (and I wasted a lot of time!)

So, in conclusion, I would just add two points to my previous list of rules:

1)Combine monsters in their prime for best stat carryover. (I saw a 400 total point drop as they got older, even though the parents had higher stats in old age!)
2)The date doesn't play any role at all. You just have to keep trying your combo, and reversing the order combined helps (or at least helps break up the boredom!)

By torey_luvullo on Friday, September 1, 2000 - 06:13 pm:

i remember that that was a common thought on mr1 boards - that you should not wait until retirement to combine. it's intriguing to be reminded of it, and to see the proof of it, in one post. good work lisa!


By Eagle_Fierce on Saturday, September 2, 2000 - 01:21 am:

Well, that would explain MY luck in combining. I never let a mosner retire until I'm forced to. I'm getting ready to make my first second generation monster in MR1, just for the sake of having it. I intend to combine Danielle (Pixie/Pixie, 7yrs, 3mo, got me Masters rank) with Wags (Market Tiger/Tiger, 5yrs, 6mo, my first monster) to get my first MR1 Mint. I don't know how this will result, but I know if Min tis as good in MR1 as she was in MR2 for me, then with the souped-up techs a Pixie has to choose form in MR1, Vix Fierce (my intended name for her), shouldblow away all competition with ease!

Well, enough bragging for me, it's time to see if I can make it come true...MUAHAHAHA Wish me luck ^_^


By Nate Railsback on Sunday, September 3, 2000 - 07:59 pm:

I don't remember whether it's been recorded on this board or not, but in my experience, each week in MR1 has its own formula for combinations that it follows at least 95% of the time. For instance, on March 3rd, if you combine (Main-type A)/(Sub-type B) with (Main-type C)/(Sub-type D), you will almost always get (Main-type C)/(Sub-type A). Or, as a more concrete example, if you combine a Worm/Naga with a Tiger/Jell (in that order), you are almost guaranteed to get a Tiger/Worm. If you switch the order around, you'll get a Worm/Tiger. This made it SO much easier to fill out my Monster Book in MR1 than it was to fill out my cards in MR2.

Oh yeah, and as far as getting a full tech carry-over if a parent's main-type matches the offspring's main-type, that must only work with a low number of techs. I tried repeatedly to get one Dragon/Henger to pass on its complete move list to its identical offspring, but I could only get around 7-9 moves to transfer on any of the many tries I made.


By Eagle_Fierce on Sunday, September 3, 2000 - 09:35 pm:

Strange that you mention this, Nate. I just did that, though I regret to say that I'm not keeping it. I just combined my Mint with a Naga (play combining) to see what the Allure in MR1's card was. Doing these little things keeps me sane while I catalog all night. Anyways, as I had predicted, the result was an Allure (I had also used this formula to get a Prism, Radar, and Vixen). The allure had all stats in the high 140-190's, excpet life, which was at 100. I didn't think much of it, until I looked at the techs it carried over. It had the identical of what Vix Fierce had acquired. The Allure had all of the techniques of a Pixie, with the exception of "Kiss" and "Fire Ball." Sadly, I'm not keeping it, because I was just playing around and am not yet finished with my Mint. Still, I thought it was impressive.

BTW, if you care to try the same thing, I am catalogging and play combining in the November 3, of the year 1038.