Base Trait - This is a term I use a lot. Basically it means the trait the monster MUST start with, and(apparently) all tablets containing this monster WILL have this ability(but it may also have others)
Moves - I dont point this out constantly, but moves from birth are always the first ones on the list. So if a monster is combined and when it is born it has 2 moves, it will ALWAYS be the first 2 on the list.
First I combined Diva and Valkyrie to see if what monster going first would make a difference.
Which monster went first was irrelevant here too. But heres the surprise: They DID get extra traits this time. Why the ones they did? Dragon got UpFire(its base move) UpMind, and UpBreath, which is the first traits on each of its parents lists. Diva got the same moves because its base move was also UpFire. XtalDragon's base move is TufScale, so it got that instead of UpFire. You will also notice that the extra traits only applied on this group, the TRAINED monsters.
I thought compatibility might be an issue, so I tried my handy JeetKuneDo and my Diva.
Result: Diva: 3 Moves, UpFire Result: JeetKuneDo: 3 moves, UpFists, UpFeet Result: Benu: 3 Moves, Tuf Skin, Up Fire
Dont let the 2 traits on JeetKuneDo and Benu surprise you, these one were bad examples since they have 2 base traits, but the other results were as expected. So far, compatibility isnt an issue.
Then I thought that the reason that the traits were passed was because they were in the same group, so I tried this:
So group doesnt seem to make a difference for this.
Conclusions
Moves - they all got 3... Diva was part of every combination, and he has 6 moves, so its possible its the parent with more moves divided by 2. More research is needed in this area, especially if compatibility is a factor.
Traits - I actually think I have a decent grasp on this part, except for WHY. In the trained combos, you always end up with the monsters base traits(s) + the first trait on each of its parents lists. While with the combos with one trained monster and one untrained monster, you get only the base trait(s) for that species. Compatibility doesnt seem to be a factor, but what I havent found is WHY the dragons pass more traits than they other combos.
Much more research needs to be done, but this is something to start on. I'm currently training the Valkyrie and when I'm done I'll see how that effects the combinations.
By torey luvullo on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 05:09 am:
nice touchstone research, very well presented.
By Lao Tse on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 08:50 pm:
It might be of interest to you that I've received traits that neither parent posses nor an item gives while breeding. Unfortunately, I didn't take the time to properly document what the 2 parents had (except I know that they had 2 or 3 traits in common, which, I believe may play a part).
Well, I'm beating around the bush. The basic monster data, ignoring traits, was a Reflector (HP, POW, SKL, SPD, LIF Maxed) and a Durahan (HP, POW, SKL, LIF Maxed), the end result being a Durahan that, among other things, had the trait "Elite". I guess I'm pretty Lao Tse when it comes to waiting until I can test things out before playing around with them.
By GoldenBoy on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:11 pm:
There is a theory that best chance at Elite comes from 2 parents who have beaen the great 4. It can appear in almost any trained combo imo. But chances improve the more the parents have done.
By S y n r e on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 06:23 pm:
Yeah, I got Elite a few times but I didnt include it since it doesnt appear consistantly and doesnt directly relate to the research.
I can't say anything about the moves, since I didn't deliberately combine for them. However, I can confirm what was said for traits for the most part. However, I also have something else to add: monsters with no base traits.
A suzurin in my book with absolutely no traits was raised up. Stats are irrelevant as far as I know, but its raised traits were: Hi-Power, Charisma, Popular (which it probably lost by the time I bred it), Up Fire and Up Mind.
The golem had Rock Skin, Hi-Aim, Dignity, Up Fire, and Up Mind.
The stats were exactly the same for both crosses. However, when the golem was put first, the baby ended up with Rock Skin, Hi-Aim, and Hi-Power. On the other hand, when the Suzarin was put first, the baby had Rock Skin, Hi-Power, and Charisma.
It looks as though when a monster has no 'base traits', the traits passed on are the first and second of the first parent, and just the first of the other.
Another note on this: Suzarin/Golems naturally have Rock Skin. Likewise, so do Golems. However, the baby RingRock that I got had those three stats. I suspect that if the parents are going to pass on a trait that the child naturally has (I.E. the Rock Skin), that the breeding 'skips over' those moves and goes to the next one. So rather than ending up with only two traits, it'll still get that three, as long as the babies were raised.
By Kurasu Soratobu on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 12:37 am:
Well. Looks like combining is a little more complicated than we originally thought. I decided to combine for my Gali. The two lucky recipients were:
Mew/Mew with Sweetvoice, Loudvoice, Popular, and UpMind
Suezo/Suezo with Farsight, TufSkin, and Popular.
I ended up with a Gali with nothing but UpMind, no matter which way I combined. Out of curiosity, I took off the UpMind on the mew. The result: a gali with nothing at all.
As a final test, I waited around for the doctor, giving the other two monsters some Hi-traits (all five; three on one, two on the other). Then, when I combined, I ended up with a Gali that had HiStamina, Hi IQ, and Hi Power. Talk about a book entry!
So to sum it up, it looks as though there's some moves that, even though they can pass on, _can't_ be gotten by certain monsters. The combination plot thickens.
By S y n r e on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 01:59 pm:
Hmmm... that reminds me of when you combine two untrained monsters, you get no traits from either, and since Gali has no base traits that might have been the reason, depending on how well the parents were trained. The fact you used a combining item could have somthing to do with it too - I have absolutly no experience with those since I just combined and recombined monsters the week before Phoenix was unlocked, resulting in a lot of untrained parents.
By Kurasu Soratobu on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 04:19 pm:
I should have mentioned: I tried combining those same monsters with the Gitan's spear. The result was a Gitan that had Sweetvoice, Tufskin, and Loudvoice. If the object has something to do with it, it's only the gali mask, in that situation.
I used these two monsters to combine with the Gali Mask in this order: Sprig – Celeris [Hare/Sp] Age- 3 y 7m 8 techs – 9 friends Hi speed, Eagle Eye, Charisma, Satori, Hi stamina, Upcounter. Master Class Reliance – 100 Pow – 673 Int – 524 Acc – 657 Spd – 653 Def – 653 Lif – 658
Snowy – White Mew [Mew/Sp] Age- 3y 4m Finished training 8 techs – 3 friends BigVoice, Up Head, Up IQ, Charisma, Satori, Up Beams Master Class Reliance – 100 Pow – 538 Int – 713 Acc – 608 Spd – 494 Def – 507 Lif – 545
the result was this: Gali [Gali/Gali] 5 techs – Fire Wall, FlyingMask, Lightning, Heavy Blow, Red Wisp Hi Speed, EagleEye, Up Head, Elite (Elite not guaranteed). Reliance – 40 Pow – 168 Int – 220 Acc – 162 Spd – 155 Def – 123 Lif – 142
I only got elite once, so that shouldn't really count. The thing about non-trait monsters still ending up with three traits came through. I'm just wondering if galis normaly get 5 moves when using 2 almost fully trained parents?