While clearing out my freezer, I came across a Mint/Kitten mix that earned Dadge's #5 comment - "Prospects are Good." After a little research, I discovered that the Mint and the Kitten match exactly in stat gain, down to guts regen rate (1 2 5 4 4 1 17).

Since one of the pair was untrained I thought that with a little work, it could be changed to #6 - "Great". With this in mind, I started working the newborn Kitten to go with my played out Mint. Stats go up, Techs are added - checking at every increase and still just "Good". Then, the Kitten goes into Prime. I check again. "Great!" An early conclusion, at least one should be in Prime.

Now that I had a Great, I started combining to see what I got. Here are my subjects:

			The Players
Pixie 1	Mimi	Mint	5 yrs 5 mths	1st retire	Comp: 2916	Techs: 11
1st gen.	LIF: 281	POW: 385	INT: 722	SKI: 667	SPD: 689	DEF: 172
Pixie 2	Missy	Kitten	3 yrs 0 mths	Prime	Comp: 1598	Techs: 12
Multi gen	LIF: 161	POW: 160	INT: 490	SKI: 341	SPD: 360	DEF: 86

My first thought was that my higher stat monster should be my main to get the highest possible resulting stats. Therefore, I combined with the Mint as main, Kitten as sub, no secret seasoning. Here are the percentages as reported by Dadge:

			%s for Combo
Pixie 47	Mint 20	Kitten 20	Daton 8	Tiger 3	Kato 1	Blue Kato 1

And now the results:

Legend: P-Pixie M-Mint K-Kitten, number shows where it appeared in the series, first num in Techs is POW, second INT.

			Table	1
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
P1	113	154	324	180	172	86	4 2
P2	110	159	316	180	172	86	4 2
P3	115	159	326	180	172	88	4 2
P4	112	152	316	180	172	85	2 4
M5	127	173	343	186	179	94	3 3
P6	112	152	324	180	172	86	4 2
M7	126	165	351	186	179	93	5 1
M8	123	164	360	186	179	91	5 1
P9	107	152	326	180	172	84	3 3
M10	120	162	348	186	179	94	5 1

See my problem here? Stats are alright, if not spectacular (Kitten needs more training). Techs, however, suck. Techs transfer at exactly the same rate as when the Kitten wasn't trained at all. Six, no more and no less. Okay, we'll try switching the order around. Kitten as main, Mint as sub, no secret seasoning. Here are the percentages from Dadge:

			%s for Combo
Pixie 50	Kitten 21	Mint 20	Daton 4	Tiger 2	Kato 2	Blue Kato 1

And, now the results:

Legend: P-Pixie M-Mint K-Kitten, number shows where it appeared in the series, first num in Techs is POW, second INT.

			Table	2
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
P1	86	120	270	167	159	74	2 6
M2	112	139	315	176	169	81	5 4
M3	109	143	312	176	169	81	3 5
P4	87	120	279	167	159	72	3 5
M5	107	138	329	176	169	81	4 4
P6	87	117	271	167	159	74	5 3
P7	89	120	273	167	159	72	4 4
M8	108	140	333	176	169	81	5 3
P9	88	120	266	167	159	73	3 5
M10	107	137	317	176	169	80	5 3

Whoa! Techs increased by 33% and in one case by 50%. Early conclusion: Creatures in Prime transfer techs at a higher rate than even fully trained monsters.

OK, now what happens when you add disk chips? I returned to my original formula for combining with the higher stats as main and added a Pixie chip.

Dadge:

			%s for Combo
Pixie 48	Mint 20	Kitten 20	Daton 7	Tiger 3	Kato 1	Blue Kato 1

Interesting. Pixie went up by 1%, while Daton goes down by 1% from table 1. Especially as the first monster in this series was a Daton (see bottom of table).

Legend: P-Pixie M-Mint K-Kitten, number shows where it appeared in the series, first num in Techs is POW, second INT.

			Table	3
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
K2	124	169	416	186	179	93	4 3
P3	113	152	374	180	172	86	3 3
P4	109	159	376	180	172	85	4 2
P5	113	151	383	180	172	86	4 2
K6	124	169	413	186	179	91	4 2
P7	107	150	362	180	172	84	4 2
P8	115	152	366	180	172	84	5 1
P9	107	154	383	180	172	86	4 2
P10	112	158	383	180	172	86	3 3
Da1	112	107	246	218	265	69	4 2

Okay. The Pixie chip helped by one tech on one monster. The only true gain is the 50 in INT. On to the next set of tests. Kitten as main,Mint as sub and a Pixie chip.

Dadge:

			%s for Combo
Pixie 50	Kitten 21	Mint 21	Daton 4	Tiger 2	Kato 1	Blue Kato 1

Mint goes up by 1%, Kato down by 1% from Table 2.

The results:

Legend: P-Pixie M-Mint K-Kitten, number shows where it appeared in the series, first num in Techs is POW, second INT.

			Table	4
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
K1	112	143	381	176	169	81	3 5 *
M2	109	141	374	176	169	81	3 5
P3	91	121	329	167	159	74	4 4
M4	107	139	381	176	169	79	5 3
P5	88	118	315	167	159	74	4 4
P6	88	117	320	167	159	74	4 4
P7	89	121	329	167	159	73	3 5
P8	88	118	326	167	159	73	5 4
K9	105	143	383	176	169	80	5 3 *
P10	89	121	329	167	159	74	4 4

* = received a sub-specific attack(Phantom Claw)

Same general boost in INT, but twice a sub-specific attack has appeared along with 1 case of an increase in Techs.

To sum up, I have found that in this case it is better to have at least one monster in Prime in the main position to increase transfer of Techs, higher stats in the main increase the transfer in stats and chips added have a smaller effect in increasing the chance for a particular monster than I had supposed. And the Magic Number Effect.

Magic Number Effect:

When the main attack stat(INT) approached a fuzzy area around 2.5 times that of the secondary attack stat(POW), the resulting Pixie received either an extra Tech(Table 2 M2,Table 3 K2,Table 4 P8) or a sub-specific Tech(Table 4 K2,K9).
I theorize that the base stat gains are being used to determine numbers of Techs being transferred over and above a certain minimum.(INT 5/POW 2 = 2.5)

I'm throwing this out for consideration as the rest of the testing for this on Pixies alone may kill me.

Comments are welcome.

Tweaking The Magic Number Effect:

Like most things in the game, the Magic Number Effect isn't as simple as it appears at first.

It is still based mainly on the ratio of the two main Attack stats base gain rates: for Pixies - INT and POW (5/2=2.5). There is, however, a fuzzy area that the effect can happen in ranging so far from a low of 2.26 to a high of 2.73.

Several monsters numbers in the tables above fall into this range without having the effect occur so Magic Number must be modified by something else. The modifiers seem to be LIF and DEF. (SKI & SPD may be involved, but since neither varied except by sub, I have no way to test for them.)

Looking again at our pure Pixies, we see that the effect occurs when LIF and DEF are at a specific set of numbers. LIF=88 & DEF=73, +1 Tech. LIF=89 & DEF=73, no added Tech. LIF=88 & DEF=74, no added Tech.

The sub-breed(Mint) without a sub-specific tech follows a similar pattern. LIF=112 & DEF=81, +1 Tech. Vary away and the added Tech disappears.

The sub-breed(Kitten) with a sub-specific attack follows a slightly different pattern. When LIF=124 & DEF=93, then Kitten added a Tech. If LIF & DEF fell, there was no added Tech, but the sub-specific Tech (Phantom Claw) appeared. There was no sample where LIF & DEF rose or LIF or DEF fell.

Therefore, we now have the ratio of the main attack stat divided by the secondary attack stat as modified by a defensive stat and life. Or in a Pixie's case: (INT/POW) as modified by LIF & DEF. Thusly, a line similar to this may operate: When (A1/A2)=X +or- .50 where (D1=Y & D2=Z) then P/sub=Tech+1. If P/sub=P/K and D1not=y or D2not=Z then P/K=Tech-1+subTech. (D1 and D2 are most likely setpoints for every so many levels.)

This is still very early in the game and a lot more data is needed. Wish me luck.

definitely, good luck john. once i get the tourney fever out of my system, i will take a long look at your findings, and try to apply them to my stable of frozen monsters.

Thanks, Torey. May not get to finish this line of research. I'm getting combos with either 9 Techs & Level 9 INT or 8 Techs & Level 11 INT. The temptation to take 'em and run is getting to be irresistable. Just might make it though. Still curious about the effects of peaches on carry over. If I peach the out of prime mint, the MN Effect jumps from 1 chance in 8 (5 out of 40) to almost 1 in 3 (9 out of 30). And I have verified set points at higher stat levels. Three Pixies in a row with higher LIF and 9 Techs. Oooooo, now I have to go play again. BTW: Missy the Kitten, one of my test Pixies, just stomped the M4 and Poritoka. My first HOF Pixie! hehehehe (maniacal giggle).

It's all very intriguing, keep up the good work!

Further Observations on a Great Combination

Having now raised the Kitten until she dropped out of prime and Gold Peaching it, I raised it until it is ready to drop out of prime again. Now, I began my second set of tests on combining.
(A third set wasn't run because the combo fell to Good on stat imbalance and had to be repaired.)

As before, we present the players:

			The Players
Pixie 1	Mimi	Mint	5 yrs 5 mths	1st retire	Comp: 2916	Techs: 11
1st gen.	LIF: 281	POW: 385	INT: 722	SKI: 667	SPD: 689	DEF: 172
Pixie 2	Missy	Kitten	6 yrs 4 mths	Prime	Comp: 3406	Techs: 14
Multi gen	LIF: 263	POW: 271	INT: 997	SKI: 852	SPD: 856	DEF: 167

I simplified the testing this time to have Missy always as the main. Any switch to Mimi caused an immediate loss of Techs.

Missy=1 peach, Mimi=0

Kitten + Mint =

Dadge reports:

			%s for Combo
Pixie 50	Kitten 21	Mint 20	Daton 4	Tiger 2	Kato 2	Blue Kato 1

Legend: P-Pixie M-Mint K-Kitten, number shows where it appeared in the series, first num in Techs is POW, second INT. *=Sub Specific Phantom Claw gained.

			Table	1-A
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
P1	110	136	372	188	179	86	4 5
P2	108	140	364	188	179	87	4 4
P3	107	134	355	188	179	89	5 3
M4	136	167	465	207	199	104	4 5
K5	129	166	452	207	199	102	6 2 *
K6	138	166	456	207	199	98	5 3 *
P7	109	143	358	188	179	89	5 3
M8	136	173	452	207	199	99	4 4
K9	135	170	447	207	199	103	4 4 *
P10	110	141	349	188	179	87	3 5

Now keeping everything else the same I added a Pixie Chip.

Kitten + Mint + Pixie Chip =

			%s for Combo
Pixie 50	Kitten 21	Mint 21	Daton 4	Tiger 2	Kato 1	Blue Kato 1

Results:

			Table	1-B
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
P1	106	137	416	188	179	86	5 3
M2	138	171	506	207	199	99	2 6
P3	107	136	414	188	179	85	5 3
K4	132	168	524	207	199	102	5 4
P5	107	136	410	188	179	87	3 5
P6	110	135	414	188	179	87	4 4
P7	109	143	358	188	179	89	5 3
M8	140	170	484	207	199	100	5 4
P9	104	142	399	188	179	88	3 5
Daton10	115	107	278	246	345	72	4 2

Apart from the increase in INT, the chip appears to have actually caused a decrease in one or two stats. And a marked loss of Tech transfer (5 without, 2 with).

Moving on to the next series, I added a Silver Peach to Missy. This moved her back solidly into prime. Percents are the same as 1-A.

Missy=2 peach, Mimi=0

Kitten+Mint=

			Table	2-A
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
P1	106	136	352	188	179	86	4 4
M3	135	166	474	207	199	102	5 3
M4	129	167	465	207	199	99	5 3
P5	103	137	360	188	179	88	5 4
P6	108	139	366	188	179	87	4 5
P7	109	134	358	188	179	85	5 3
P8	108	134	360	188	179	89	5 3
K9	135	163	447	207	199	104	4 4 *
P10	104	138	349	188	179	87	3 5
Kato2	98	90	533	456	498	114	5 1

Now, Kitten+Mint+PixieChip=
Percentages are the same as 1-B.

			Table	2-B
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
P1	104	142	422	188	179	88	3 5
P2	103	134	408	188	179	85	5 4
K3	134	174	515	207	199	104	4 4 *
K4	140	168	497	207	199	99	5 4 *
P5	107	141	410	188	179	87	3 5
M7	138	168	511	207	199	102	5 3
P8	106	135	419	188	179	87	3 6
P9	104	143	419	188	179	87	5 4
P10	106	141	410	188	179	87	4 4
Tiger6	108	186	279	246	389	84	4 2

We still have our reductions in one or two stats, but they are very minor. And extra Tech transfer lunges ahead from its previous high of 1 in 3 to an almost 50/50 chance(Table 2-B). Also the set points appear to be an area instead of specific numbers now.

Now we move on to the final series of tests. Mimi receives a Gold Peach.

Missy=2peach,Mimi=1peach
Kitten+Mint=
Dadge reports the same percentages as for 1-A.

			Table	3-A
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
P1	106	136	369	188	179	88	4 4
P2	110	139	358	188	179	87	5 3
P3	102	139	366	188	179	87	4 5
P5	102	134	372	188	179	88	4 4
K6	134	174	434	207	199	99	5 3 *
P7	108	136	352	188	179	87	3 5
P8	106	136	349	188	179	88	3 5
P10	109	142	346	188	179	87	4 4
Daton4	115	107	228	246	313	72	4 2
Daton9	115	107	228	246	318	72	4 2

That was unexpected. Stats went up, but extra Tech transfer fell to 1 in 5 and there were two main switches.

Final series:
Missy=2peach,Mimi=1peach
Kitten+Mint+PixieChip=
Dadge has the same odds as 1-B.

			Table	3-B
Monster	LIF	POW	INT	SKI	SPD	DEF	TECHS
K1	132	162	497	207	199	101	4 4
M2	129	166	488	207	199	103	5 3
P3	107	139	410	188	179	88	5 4
K4	132	168	524	207	199	104	5 3
P5	109	136	422	188	179	85	4 4
K6	131	162	497	207	199	103	4 4 *
M7	135	174	511	207	199	98	5 3
P8	108	134	414	188	179	88	4 5
P9	109	143	396	188	179	87	4 4
P10	104	138	408	188	179	88	4 4

Decidedly peculiar. Minor losses in stats, but extra Tech transfer has returned to 1 in 3. This leaves it open to Silvering Mimi and getting back up to 50/50.

From the patterns observed in my testing, we can draw some assumptions.

Great Combinations are Dadge's assessment of Base Stat Gain alignment and actual Stat alignment. Main determines type of techs and Sub boosts Stats. As this has been discussed before, let's leave it and motor on to the newer stuff.

Tech transfer increases with a Main that is in Prime. From my earlier post, that meant a jump from 6 Techs to 8. Most of the posts I've seen on the subject assumed this as a maximum number, for Pixies anyway (1/2 possible Techs if main and sub have over 1/2, rounding up).

I believe the data above proves that it is possible to get over that 50% mark. It appears that there is a set of modifiers attached to the main attack stat/second attack ratio. As your stats climb, the modifiers change form to an area of values so the chances of acquiring extra Techs improves.
However, it also appears that adding disk chips can cause several problems as well as helping. From other testing, I found that chips that modified the stat ratio caused more main switches.

Example 1: added Mock chip to practice test. All stats fell and had three main switches.

Example 2: added Crab's Claw boosting skill and defense, but lowering INT by as much as 80 points and two main switches.

So where does all this lead? Hopefully to you being able to build a better monster.

Great combinations depend on alignment in stats and base stat gains.(Monsters just combine better with certain others) Tech transfer depends on stats and the ratios between them. Add disk chips only to boost the monster's main stat. The slight loss in some stats will be made up by not having to go to so many errantries.

To sum up, a Great Combination can be made better with a Main in prime, good stats and a number of techs with a Sub that has as high a set of stats as you can manage and a minimal set of techs. Add disk chips only to the main stat for your monster. The ratio providing the Magic Number Effect is easy to throw off.

This will probably be the last set of tests on this for a while. Getting rid of that Kitten (Table 2-B, K4) caused me actual, physical pain. Nine techs, including the sub-specific Phantom Claw and Level 30 stats on the FPT(Fenrick Public Tourney)Scale.

As always, Comments are Welcome and Flames are cheerfully ignored.

I guess I'm just too curious for my own good. I had to find out just one more thing, so there will be one more post sooner or later. A tidbit: Two monsters in prime increase the transfer rate.

I am now officially afraid of Pixies ;). Taking a few test runs on Misty, the child of Missy & Mimi, and an out-of-prime HOF Phoenix has produced a series of Pixies that have composites in the low 30's to the upper 30's on a Good Combo. I have one that I may have to send to Dark Phoenix to verify that I didn't 'shark the sucker. Pure Pixie: level comp. of 39, numeric comp. of around 1700 and 11 techniques.

Oh nooooooo!!!! I've used this combing guide for a while and have gotten 6 great combos since then. But I have run into a problem. My first time being unsuccesful has occured. An undine and a ghost where to be combined but it didn't come out great. So I may have found something of great impotance. I know they were matched up perfectly..... Sooo it means Chef(Ghost/???) Might have a two in something instead of 1-1-4-4-4-1. Or it could mean that it just didn't play out right this time.... Any advice Dp?

Also, what if a monster has the same stats like 999 the a stat gain of 3 would be x1=999. So which one would come first? Also, would that monster I;'m combining have to have those stats equal too?

This is where the baseline stats come in. Say you have a Monster with an INT, SKI and SPD all at 999 after correction. The problem here is determining which stats take priority here.

This is where the Baseline stats come in. Lets say that baseline stats for the monster in question are INT 170,SKI 150,SPD 140. In this case, with 3 way 999 tie, INT would be on top because its the highest of the three in terms of baseline stats. Next would be SKI, since this is the second highest baseline, and finally, SPD. So the resulting order would be INT,SKI,SPD.

If the baseline stats were different, say the monster has a baseline of INT 120 SKI 170 SPD 160, then the order then be SKI,SPD, and INT. Get it so far?

Now, for the reason you didn't get a Great combination between, the Undine and Chef. Unfortunately, because of what I have explained above, a Chef and an Undine can NEVER be made into a great combination.

The reason why is that the stat multiplier for stats with a gain of 1 is ALWAYS corrected to zero, which invokes the baseline stat part of determining the order.

Here's what went wrong, Infinite Joker:

The lowest Stat in the Chef's corrected stat order will ALWAYS be DEF.

The lowest Stat in the Undine's corrected stat
order will be POW.

Since those two stats will ALWAYS default to the bottom after correcting, the Chef and the Undine CANNOT make a Great Combination. Sorry IJ.

If Dadge still gave you a Good review however, go ahead and combine, you should still end up with a very satisfactory result.

What can make a great combo with an undine?

A Phoenix can, if you have some way of getting one.

Another question for you, DP: I remember long ago that you (or was it someone else?) had hacked a monster from A-class to B-class (or the equivilent), to test something. When it was E-class, the combination hadn't been a perfect one. And yet when it was B-class, it had been a better combo.

Is this patr of the 'grea' at all? Or is this pure fluke, thanks to the Gameshark?