Life vs Other Stats. Some mathematical proof

Monster Rancher Metropolis: Monster Rancher 2 Archive (PSOne): Raising/Training Tips: Life vs Other Stats. Some mathematical proof
By RNA on Thursday, April 20, 2000 - 02:17 am:

Okay, let's take two stats. Life and power. Now let's say both are equal in difficulty to raise (variable by monster, of course. We'll assume we have a monster who is both good in life and in power). Thus getting to 999 life is just as hard as getting to 999 power (errantries reduce lifespan so I wouldn't recomend using them as a factor of how hard it is to raise life). We'll assume that the defense of the monsters stays the same since my argument was that life without defense is worthless (guess I should have said inferior instead. It's not worthless, just ludicrously not helpful or practical) Now a monster with 900 life withstands 50% more than a monster with 600 life, right? But a monster with 900 power does A LOT MORE than just 50% more damage than a monster with 600 power (as well as withstands more from powerbased moves. Anyone who's raised a monster to kill in one hit status, whether a tank or a speed demon knows this). Conclusion? Life is an inferior stat without defense to back it up. At least at the later levels (and the later levels are what counts). Early on life is very good because 400 life withstands a whopping four times as much as 100 life but later on the life gains become insignificant as 900 life withstands only 1.5 times as much as 600 life (note that the difference of 300 is the same between those two examples). Whereas the ratios for power remains the same no matter how high.

-- Tiamat (sonofbahamut@hotmail.com), December 11, 1999

Answers

One more thing. Life does NOT DIRECTLY affect life span! Only indirectly in battle because when you get hit you don't lose as high a percentage (unless you have low DEFENSE, ahem, then you'll be hurting in those later higher ranks no matter how high your life is when you get hit). If life really affected lifespan (at least significantly to the point where you'd notice), then ALL high life monsters would live A LOT longer than monsters with just 150 life, yet my speed demons still manage to live as long (sometimes longer, sometimes shorter) than my tanks (interesting, since I'm nearly positive that pixies are supposed to have naturally shorter lifespans than golems). Monster type probably does affect lifespan though (a wracky to live 9 years? Great heavenly sweet merciful crap)

-- Tiamat (sonofbahamut@hotmail.com), December 11, 1999.

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"Life is an inferior stat without Def to back it up" is true but "Life with Def to back it up" is superior to Power since Power is also associated with Ski and the opponent's Spd (which is very high in the later stages, you'd had to have higher Ski than their Spd in order to have a clear advantage). But, on the other hand, Pow/Int backed up by Ski is the superior with regards to all stats. Based on experience, during the higher class bouts, a match that would last longer than 10 seconds, usually ends up in the favor of the opponent (even with speed demons like, ghost, pixies, katos, and tigers).

If all stats would stand alone, i guess def would be the least ideal to raise as it depends on life whereas life doesn't depend that much on def. Spd & Lif are next since Spd is also dependent on life or power/int. Pow and Int are pretty much the same. And Ski would be the most ideal to raise the highest as it can stand alone.

-- vanman (vanman@i-manila.com.ph), December 11, 1999.


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It us pointless to hold one attribute apart. They are all useful. That is why LIF is easy to gain in 3drills and every errantry. The way I groups Attributes is like this: LIF and SKI ever monster need s both. POW or INT either on based on the attacks SPD or Def either one based on the monsters gifts. Picking one from each category is the easiest way to raise your monst

-- Golden Boy (chrisbee@exploremaine.com), December 11, 1999.

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Speed demons don't need life:P ALthough if I had a maxed out speed demon and had to choose, I'd go with defense so drain attacks wouldn't be as effective against me

-- Tiamat (sonofbahamut@hotmail.com), December 11, 1999.

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Life is inferior w/o defense to back it up, eh? Of course.

In addition to that, a high defense is inferior without POW or INT to back it up (as said in the manual). However, the manual did not indicate how much an effect POW has on defense against POW-based techs and INT has defensively against INT techs. I fought that Niton in class S with about 790 DEF. The enemy did not have a very good POW rating, contrary to my Hare. The result? My Hare was still doing some major damage to the Niton regardlesss. In fact, I had a tougher time taking out that Golem who, incidentally, had a good mix of POW and DEF.

In addition, I also had a Durahan who fought that Daina in the M4. The Durahan had a lot of POW and DEF (700+ of each), but very little INT. The result? Big Bang took over 800 LIF away!

So in conclusion, I'd also say that POW and INT have a significant impact on relative DEF, which has significant impact on preventing LIF loss, which has significant impact on lifespan, which has a significant impact on stat gaining, which has a significant impact on battling, which has a significant impact on... :)

-- Sean X. Chang (x@x.com), December 11, 1999.


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Yep, Sean's right about that. POW and INT do increase defense against their respective techs. Similarily, I had the same experiences with my Durahan against Siarra and Carmine.

-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), December 11, 1999.

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I've been thinking... maybe life isn't so worthless without defense simply because power and int give you some defense vs their respective types too (they do. Not only does the instruction booklet say so but I've experienced it too). However, it depends on just how significantly power and intelligence add to your defense vs those skills. Ah well. I'll have to go out and say that either power or intelligence are perhaps the most powerful stats probably since the defensive difference that they give still isn't enough to make you not only really need only one or the other, I feel (all of my legends cup monsters, whether tanks or speed demons, had maxed out power or int).

-- Tiamat (sonofbahamut@hotmail.com), December 11, 1999.

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Life without defense is most certainly not useless. Take it from a guy who routinely plays monsters with 1 Defense. The more life it has, the more of a buffer you have between you and KO. Even high speed monsters get hit, and a monster with 150 life will not reliably succeed in high rank battles. Sure you can reset 5 times, but in addition to being really annoying, it's not quite playing fair.

Also, while Tiamat's mathematical analysis may seem like a compelling argument for de-emphasizing life, I have another take on it: Given two monsters with the same defense, speed, and skill--one with 500 life, 999 pow; the other with 999 life, 500 power, which one will win more often? Why the power monster, of course. But which will perform more reliably? The life monster. When you have that life monster, in a very real sense, it doesn't make a difference what type of monster you're fighting, because he can take the hits from any kind of monster. You can be fighting a speed demon or a tank, and you really don't have to worry about it--as long as you can beat them down, you will. With the power monster, luck becomes a major factor. If for some strange reason (and this either has or will happen to all of us) your 99% attack misses 6 times in a row, that power monster is dead. The life monster has the staying power to give you a chance to win, despite poor luck.

I'm not saying you should max your Life first, because it's that important. Life doesn't damage the enemy. I am saying that a "purely mathematical" analysis that makes life seem useless may be very misleading. I have two Nagas in the freezer, both have swept the Major 4. One has 950 Pow, 850 Ski, 450 Lif, 450 Def. The other has 750 Pow, Skill, Life and 450 Def. The second wins just as many battles, easily, as the first does with much hair-tearing and resetting. It's because that extra Life, at expense of Power and Skill, makes him far more reliable.

-- Lao (darklao@hotmail.com), December 13, 1999.