Just the other day I was clearing up some free space on my PS2 memory card, and I realized: hey, I've got enough room here to fill in all ten of the MR4 save slots! So I figured I should put them to good use. How? I'm going to do a study to find what the most efficient Monster Breeding Method is. You supply the methods, and I'll test them. I would appreciate it if each method were posted in the following format:

(Title)
(Short description - what's unique about it? all self-training, all gadgets, what?)
Praise monster when success rate is at least: (percentage)
Scold monster when success rate is lower than: (percentage)
Let monster rest when: ("OK" status, "Tired" status, in-between the two, only when tired gauge is nearly full)
Rest for tourneys: (Rest on the week of tourney,
Rest the week before, let him tough it out)
Rest for adventures: (week of adventure, week of tourney, tough it out)
Feed Monster when: ("OK", "Hungry", in-between, only when gauge is nearly empty)
What shouldn't Monster ever eat?: (list any foods that you don't want fed to the monsters; if none, then "N/A")
What should he eat a lot?: (foods that you want the monsters to get a lot of)

I look forward to your posts!

An entire method does seem pointless right now, but I would like to see the praise/scold info.

Currently, I'm scolding 64% and under, and praising 65% and up. It seems to work OK, since I don't see my monsters get very stressed, and they perform well (sometimes VERY well) the week after scolding. I also keep them well rested and well fed, since my Undine is the only monster on my ranch that doesn't get fat. ^_<

I am praising 70% and up and scolding at 60-50% and below... scold depends on the monster, the drill and how hungry he is at the time. It works pretty well, my monsters hardly perform below 70% and if they do its because it's a stat that is hard for that breed to build up

I pretty much scold at 60% and below, or maybe in the 60s-low 70s if the monster keeps doing that range for multiple weeks, and praise for 90s, or maybe high 80s if they get a good increase or keep it up for a while.

I also tend to praise if a monster's feeling frustrated - it seems to make them feel better in general.

I gave up on Praising and Scolding because I have a hard time telling when to do it, there is so many factors that you can take into account. I do scold my monsters sometimes, only if it is below 50% and his fatigue is low and he is not hungry. It seems to work normally. The only way I praise them is if they get 80 or high when they tired or hungry. I fond that food plays a very vital role in the stress of the monsters, depending on when you feed him and what you fee him. I don’t use Gadgets that much only 1 or 2 (level 4) in the 8 week cycle, the reasons I don’t use gadgets is because in one of those documents it says using gadgets to much has a negative effect on your monsters bonding.

Pertaining to raising style, has anyone figured out the Focus Meter yet? I mean, I know it shows how well a monster will likely perform a task, but do we know how to read it yet? Sometimes arrows point left, and sometimes they point right. Sometimes all of them are filled, but other times only a few. One thing I do know, is that the arrows on the left side of the meter will disappear first.

My theory: High Focus arrows point left. Low Focus arrows point right. If your monster's Focus is getting low, the arrows will start to turn black, then shift from left-facing arrows to right-facing ones, and all arrows will turn red again. If Focus diminishes further, the arrows will start to turn black again. Like I said, this is only a theory, and if anyone knows how they really work, let me know.
Thanks.

Your theory's mostly sound, in my experience. (Though I can't claim to be an expert, by any stretch of the imagination.)

I've also found that focus is the primary attribute pertaining to starting guts, at least in tournaments.

A full focus meter will give you 99 guts to start out, even if your monster is slightly tired or hungry.

Under the same fatigue level, but with half a focus meter, my monsters have started with as few as 50 guts.

That would lead me to believe that focus, rather than fatigue, is the dominant factor in determining guts level, though fatigue does factor in at some point.

Anyone else seen this same sort of thing?

Also, on the praise/scold situation:

I praise at 80-85% and up, depending on how hungry/fatigued a monster is.

At the 90% or higher mark, I both praise and give the monster either a favorite item or a favorite food.

I scold anything below 75%, and if they're hungry, I give them the food that they hate.

My breeding technique is still listing as "Easier" or "Normal", though recently, I've found my monsters becoming frustrated more frequently, commonly after they get done using a level three gadget.

I'm not sure if the use of gadgets stresses monsters more, or simply fatigues them more. I try to alternate between gadgets and low level training. So far, my three oldest monsters are fully bonded with me, and my fourth monster is 3/4 of the way there, at only a year old. (I don't use a fifth monster, so I can shrine whenever the mood strikes me.)

I believe focus is the main ingredient in the 99 guts but there are others. I've had a complete focus meter and still had only 75 guts. Also had one arrow missing full rest and full full(boy that sounds wierd) meters with being lively and only had 50 guts(that was a monster that didn't like battles) but I believe a full focus meter and lively will usually get the 99 guts.

As for scolding/praising I never realized it had to do with the percentages I always thought it had to do with the results I always praise if over a 10 increase. That explains why I'm considered lenient :)

The guts, i believe has to do with the tiredness of the monster, not the focus. Lively is 99, Well is 75, Tired is 50. I never went below that. Anyone else see this?

Slap is correct, its just about resting before a tourny. well and having enough food to be lively.

I am always completely rested before tournaments and there are still times that my guts are 75 or 50. (I'm not saying it is not a factor just saying that it is not the only one)

was your monster lively or just Ok... he has to be lively.

fullness and tiredness are what determine the guts for tournys.... my monsters never have full focus but i always have 99 guts in tournys since i feed em a beef and let em rest that week.

lively
90-100% full
100% rested
try to get focus at least with 1 or less arrows missing
It may be the monsters I'm raising as some of them hate battle
might also have something to do with weight as there are times I miss the change for a month or two.

Yeah...I've had a couple of monsters go chubby on me, because there's no real way to tell if they've got a weight problem or not, without checking the charts.

Well,I was wondering,what kinds of results to you guys get from your Lv.4 Training Gadgets?
At first,my monsters used to get about 55%,but i've been getting slightly better results lately.
I still scold them,though,poor things :).

I think the highest I've ever gotten from a level four was like 86%, from the running machine.

I'm happy whenver it's above 50%, though.

How often is everyone feeding their monsters? I'm feeding mine like every week, or every other week. I still have the problem with my pixie/ripper and my AssassiRipper and my mocchi/jell that they all are slim unless I feed them every week to get them to normal. My dragon runs to chubby unless I alternate vitamins with squid or beef. My bargast (tiger) is also thin unless I'm making him eat beef all the time.
I'm not sure if it has to do with certain monsters having different metabolisms or what.
I know that all of my monsters always have energy bar or vitamin as their top food choice. i usually end up feeding them squid or beef, which ranks high for them, to keep weight on them and then i alternate it with the vitamins.
anyone else have problems keeping their monsters at normal weight?

Worn-Out guts start at 35...

It seems that stress is also involved in the guts total during battle,as ReCoil,my Henger,was lively and full,but on the brink of frustration (not frustrated yet,but darn close),and started a battle with 60/65 guts.
So,whenever my monster's frustrated the week before a tourney,instead of praising it to raise it back to lively or ok,I let it rest.

Yeah...I've learned it's best to let them rest on the week of a tourney. (Of course, I forget from time to time who I have scheduled...and it cost me the Official A championship.)

to nephe-ra:

I feed my monster about 2nd or 3rd week or at most twice a month... i don't know how your monsters become thin or fat but i can guess its the food that you feed them... can you post what are you feeding your monsters ? or what you usually give them :) thanks

to Raistlin_Majere: If a monster does well training wise, I feed them their favorite thing. If a monster does bad training wise, I feed them something they don't like, unless they're really tired, then I feed them something in the middle category.
Most of my monsters seem to love Energy Bars and Vitamins, and I postulate this is what makes them Slim and Thin. But others, like my dragon, love Meat, so they get chubby. I usually feed them whenever they're more than 1/5 or so hungry.
I usually end up feeding every week or every other week.
My first monster after the garu was a pure pixie and she always was chubby until I hit on the knack of feeding her energy bars.
My dragon, I was able to control his overweight problem by feeding him the beef he craved, interspersed with squid and vitamins.
My other monsters, the ones with the zan or ripper or joker sub breeds I have to sneak in food because all they want are the energy bars and vitamins.
I hope this helps.

Thanks for your contributions, everyone! I've logged all the posts into Notepad, and I'll be studying them shortly. And, not to complain or anything, but I'd really appreciate it if you'd follow the format that I posted at the top of the thread. It would really make things easier for me.

to nephre-nara:

sorry if i just saw your post now, energy bars and vitamins makes your monsters slim while meat adds weight to your monsters.. when your dieting your monster feed them energy bars or vitamins... if you want your monster to gain weight give them meat and peaches and honey toasts

Im not sure about this, but My Durahan liked to be scolded... Im not sure but... when his focus bar pointed to the right I started to scold him, then usally it start to point left agian... Mabey scolding has a positive affect... (I also like to add that he mostly got 65% on his trainings, but even with 65% he usally got +8-11 on normal, and +20-25 with gadgets... I was shocked...)

be careful though ... haven't checked it out thoroughly but scolding a monster also increases the stress level of your monster

DTM, of course scolding would have a positive effect. If you scold your Durahan while he's not well-focused, then he'll learn to associate that negative reinforcement with poor focus, and so he'll try to put forth his best focus in order to avoid scolding. It's a simple reward-and-punishment system.

On the flip-side of this reward-and-punishment issue, scold your Durahan only SPARINGLY (this applies to all monsters), and OBSERVE his efficiency before you scold him. For instance...if Durahan's focus is good, but he's getting a poor percentage for some other reason, DON'T scold him. He'll associate the negative reinforcement with the poor percentage - thus learning that training poorly is a "bad" behavior - but he might also associate his good focus with it. As a result, your Durahan will improve in percentage and deteriorate in focus to avoid getting scolded. If you saw such a pattern, you'd probably scold Durahan. But then you'd be sending mixed messages, confusing and stressing it.

Does all this make sense?

It makes sense, but I highly doubt the AI is that relentless...

Don't be so sure. I know from personal experience that having a Reward/Punishment system in a game really forces you to think through your rewarding and punishing. Here are just a few games that I've experienced this in:

- Black & White
- Sonic Adventure (Chao)
- Sonic Adventure 2 (Chao)
- Creatures (1, 2, and 3)
- Wonder Project J

If you've played any or all of these games, you probably know what I'm talking about.

Well brak I would really like to see the research you have done that proves scolding has a positive effect.. I also wanna see how you concluded that the monster associates the low focus with the scolding.

Brakfanatic00 may not strictly have research to back up his claim, but the theory is at least worth testing, especially since "Focus" is new to the series. I may have to try this out...

It's the, "I have to do better to please master" theory.

This has always existed.

You ought to read up on B.F. Skinner's experiments in
reinforcement before you run any tests.

Ok, I read all those posts searching for this info, and it doesn't appear that anyone else has figured this out (Forgive me if i'm wrong).

For an instant 1 arrow higher in focus, feed your monster. From my experiences, for this to be guaranteed, the monster has to like the food (Not favourite, liked, favourite works to though). A disliked food may work, but not always. A second feeding in the same week does not always mean a second arrow.

Also, from my experiences, arrows pointing left mean your focus is going to go up, arrows pointing right mean it's going to go down. That is, unless you do something to make their direction reverse.

hmm well although feeding sometimes raises focus it does not ALWAYS do so even if it is their favorite.

I praise my monsters when they perform at 80% and up and scold them at 65% and below. I feed them when their hungry bars are half, and rest them just before they get tired.

My raising policy always ended up being "easy" or "easier." How do I raise the policy to "normal"?

Raise the bar for good performance. Scold below 80%,
especially once you have the Wind Drum.

Also try to find a food that they don't like so much, but are
willing to eat without complaint. There doesn't seem to be a
good "punishment food" like fried newt, but finding
something near the bottom of a monster's list should have a
similar effect.

I discipline at 70%, and scold under 65%. I also have tried to use food as a reward (like GoldenBoy said). At least they get fed.

(BTW, Hi!)

As a general rule, I try to look more at the stat gains than the percentage value of their effort - if they get a +11 on a level 1 drill with 65% effort, why would I punish them?

It's because they aren't doing their best. 65% in most things isn't very good compared to 80, 90, or even 100%

The problem that I haven't found a monster that almost always gets 90%+, paticularly later on in their lives.

If I tried that out with my monsters, they's all become stressed-out heart attack candidates who loathe me night and day.

Plus, that goes back to the 'maybe monsters are smart enough so that they know how much effort to put in to get the maximum bonus' theory...

But, as GB pointed out at the start of the post, it's all theoretical at this time.

Wind Drum is probably the most useful Effect item in the
game so far, as long as you have a Wonder well to help
counter the stress it generates.

Ok, this is probably a silly question, but I'll ask it anyway, I'm currently raising 3 monsters and I just noticed that the arrows of "Focus" for two of them are pointing to the left and the "Focus" of the other is pointing to the right, is this basically like positive and negative? And if it is, which way is positive?

Oh yeah, and how do I fix "Focus"?

Focus can be altered by praising or scolding your monsters, feeding them, and giving them items.

I won't go so far as to say what action will do what, because I haven't managed to clearly define that yet.

I do know that sometimes actions I think will raise their focus actually lowers it. For example, I gave Oily Oil to a monster of mine to drop his Fatigue level. At that time he had full focus, with the arrows pointed upward. After I gave him the oil, his arrows changed direction to downward. I'd suggest experimenting with what affects your monsters and how.

Thanks, but when you say pointed upward, do you mean to the left or the right?

Everything increases to the left on those bars.

Note that I NEVER said scolding had a positive effect. The effect varies depending on how they performed. If for some reason you were to scold your monster for getting, say, a ninety percent, it would associate the punishment with its good training score and thus it would learn getting good training scores as a "bad" behavior. Likewise, if you were to praise him for getting a forty percent, he would learn low training scores to be "good". Also, this is not the "I must do better to please master" theory. If you'll kindly look at some of my previous posts, note that you can't scold for just one aspect of training. If you scold your monster when it has good focus but bad scores, it will learn both bad scores and good focus to be "bad". Same with praising for good scores and low focus, it would learn low focus as well as good scores to be "good".

While I admittedly have no hard data to back this up, I have had quite a bit of experience with it in MR4 and other games that use similar reward-and-punishment systems.

Oh, BTW...where can I find Skinner's research that you mentioned?

so basically your saying only scold when both focus and % is bad and praise only when there both good right?

That's actually rather funny. Almost every time I scold when focus is low, my monster goes immediately into the 'frustrated' area. So I'm careful about scolding monsters who are low in focus, and I almost never scold a monster who is tired (at 1/3 or higher tiredness bar) unless the % is _very_ low. I'd rather have a slightly easier monster that I can scold later, than one who's completely stressed out and losing more lifespan.

This is a very interesting discussion. I, however, don't agree with the risk/reward data tracking assumption.

I have a very, very simple methos of keeping my monsters on an 'Even' keel.

1) Work/Rest
2) Feed them the top food they _don't_ like, if I can find one I can buy and gives enough Fullness. (Melons, Watermelons, or Squid do well)
Otherwise, feed them the lowest food the like, to keep down the Easy slide.
3) Scold them if/when I get to Easier.

My monsters work just fine... I highly doubt, from my experience, that the game tracks when/what you scold them for. It just tracks the Easy/Hard scale, and applies other effects.

By the way, my monsters get just fine stats, and I use predominantly Magic Lvl 2 Gadgets with a Wind Drum and a Wonder Well for my support.

Wyatt

Dknight, that's basically right. The core reason why this exists is because you can't define exactly what it is you're praising/scolding your monster for, so its AI checks the context in which it was praised/scolded and associates every element of that context with the praising/scolding.

Really, I can't emphasize enough that this is NOT the "I have to do better to please master" theory. To put it into your context, though, it's pretty much...

"I have to do this behavior more often so that I will get praised by master"
OR
"I have to keep this behavior to a minimum so that master will not punish me"

depending on whether you praised or scolded it.

Let's say you have a kitten that you're trying to housebreak. You give it a treat every time it uses the litterbox. So the kitten eventually learns that using the litterbox earns it a treat, and learns using the litterbox as a "good" behavior because of the treat. However, every time the kitten does its business outside of the litterbox, you spritz it with water. The kitten does not like being spritzed with water, and so by association it learns that it should not do its business any place besides the litterbox. However, if you were to spritz the kitten for relieving itself on the floor while eating, it might learn eating as a bad behavior.

This type of thing can be applied to ANY sort of reward/punishment system. Think of it as the inverse of Pavlov's Dog.

Title: Antlan Raising M.K. I

I believe that the Antlan breed usually has a great resistance to the effects of Fatigue. So, this will see.

Praise monster when success rate is at least: 90

Scold monster when success rate is lower than: 75

Let monster rest when: Tired
Rest for tourneys: Week before.
Rest for adventures: Week of
Feed Monster when: Hungry
What shouldn't Monster ever eat?: Meat
What should he eat a lot?: Watermelons

Title - Min-max (don't care)

Short Description - The goal is to get the most stats in the least amount of weeks. With the lack of information to extending life or misc stat gaining techniques, I thought this might be the best bet. Use magic medals if possible, wind drum, and anything else you want. Adaptation of the technique and the little details I'll leave to your judgment. After considering potential, but ignoring actual factors, I devised a plan to get the most out of 3 month blocks while keeping fully rested. Lvl4 gadget blocks get an estimated 300 stats, using gadget/rest at 50 each use (good luck with this). Lvl2 gadgets get 180 and 160, whether using 3gadget/rest or 2gadget/rest at 20 each use. Alter it depending on factors like tough heart, oily oils, and the like. Begin gadget uses when the above figures can be met. Some creatures may not meet the goals, but I estimate that anything that can get 15 stat each use will get 20 from utilizing a magic medal.

Scold monster when success rate is lower than 70%, or 3 focus arrows. Praise randomly when good effort is given just to keep some stress down.

Let monster rest when: it is still in the ok status and fatigue can be completely wiped out. Never substitute a little exercise in place of rest. Such is because a Lvl2 block 2gadget/no gadget/rest is worth only 150, with extra fatigue/stress and less results.

Rest for tourneys: Fully rested before battle, but fight as sparse as possible

Rest for adventures: Fully rested, and hopefully you can allow it to leach exp

Feed Monster: Often, to keep fully fed. Choose a monster that, hopefully, meets the requirements. Hates honey drops, or something similar. Energy bar, vitamins, and some fattening food are liked. The honey drop thing is not important, and any food it dislikes may be used towards keeping its focus high. The weight changing food is important to keeping a normal figure. Give it what it likes at 90+ successes and something it dislikes when it does worse.

Hope I didn't miss anything.

With all this talk about praising and scolding, I'm curious if anyone's taken the taskmaster route yet. In MR1/2 there were certain monsters (mainly evil types, like the Joker) that would excel in the arena if you flat out abused them and made them hate you. Granted, they wouldn't live a long time but they'd zoom through the levels as they channeled their rage into their training and the smashing of their opponents.

I was going to try it myself but my new Joker has surprised me by being an exceptionally hard worker from the get-go. He consistently gets 90%+ on his training, so I have't had the heart to run him into the ground.

spirit monsters do really well, but they live less than others(at least jokers and phoenixes, haven't raised a dragon yet). The training is good, but i've never got either of the afore mentioned monsters over 3yrs.3mnths.

I have an amendment to my post above. Now that I have actually used lvl4 gadgets as a way to raise stats, the method I posted above seems flawed.

Lvl 4 gadgets could be used just before the monster passes its first stage. If tough heart is one of its traits, two magic medal lvl 4 could be used before it rests. Use that if you are good at selected the correct food type listed below, as it could potentially remove the stress message. A combination of gadgets with less strain should be used otherwise.

Praises should be used at 100% when using anything other than a lvl4 gadget, and should be used at 80% when using them. Scold the monsters the week before their first lvl4 gadget, when they are resting. I seem to have received over 80% each time this was done, so praises should be plenty and help keep stress down. Praises should be done at any time it shows stressed, and scolds are done only during rest. Magic medal gadgets should be the type that is first used just after rest.

Feeding should be every week, and alternated between fruits, meats, and energy bar/vitamin. I had seen stress appear more frequently when only one type was used, but alternating them sometimes removed the stress message. Feed the monster something it hates only when focus drops to two arrows.

Now, maybe this will be all.

I'm a little confused as to when is a good time to start using LV3 and LV4 gadgets. Is it something based on where in their lifespan they are or is it something based on how far along their stats are? I.E. Can I expect to get some success from LV4 Moving Target once a monster is 2 years old, or should I wait until I have gotten its ACC stat over 400?

Not looking for any emperical data from testing, just want to know what other folks are having success with.

Thanks!

Here's how I evaluate when to change training level. If the training percentage is low, yet my monster still got the maximum amount of gain possible, I go up a level. For example, if doing a level 2 training, the monsters does 85% and still gets around 24, I go to level 3. This percentage/gain thing goes hand in hand with the lifestage and stat gain of my monsters, so I sometimes just use those as reference when I'm not feeling like paying much attention to my training results.

After each message that Rio gives you, I.E. lifestages. I'd assume this would be a good time to upgrade if you arn't certain.

I un fortunetly have no stick persay. in mr2 spoiling netted a 999 all stat centaur (pure) with 100 loyaltyand, in mr3 a pure zan with 650 pow and speed 450 lif 300 def and a whapping one inteligennce and still living ( havent finished mr3 but zan at end of life span) but I feed at ok and rest is no problem it's work rest and no change regard less of condition ie touney venture etc etc. focus is normally four left or higher but spoiling is no longer working im going to have to use a stick ( or in my case a log) as soon as those 90%s wear off.

ps gadget raised monsters not having high "bonds" is bogas my nightsicle ( ripper/?)got 100 bonds with me on gadgets incidentally he also 21 (not percent actualy gains) on a normal book.and the guy who posted the kitten/litterbox is right, make sure every thing is neg before scold.

Just for the record. I tested out two monsters on level 4 Health machines. Started heavy training after the first year. Praise above 90 and scold below 90.

Both became frustrated but perform well in training. Excellent results. Consisting performing in the high 90s. Both S class. One has managed to win 3 S class battles.

Their training indicates Hard and Hardest and my fish is due for retirement in 2 years 9 months.

I only praise monsters when they're frustrated for two straight weeks or so (it pains me to see 'em irritated). When I get into "easier" mode, I scold them (ONLY during the week before their rest, so that they wouldn't be frustrated and mess up the next training) OR give 'em what they don't like. I don't know if this method works, but their usual percentage of success is 90%+ (level 4 gadgets get 75% to 95%+).

Their training for a month usually consists of one level 3/4 gadget, then two more "self" training (so bonding's kinda quick) before they rest. If the gadget at the first week was lvl 4, I usually give 'em oily oil. Too bad about my depleting finances. They usually live to see their fourth year before retirement, and that really irritates me. In MR2 a looong time ago, I could do 10+ years.............>_<

And for the record, the only medal I have at the moment is the one Wit gave me, and I spent it for the Magic Book.

How do you know if the monster is "stressed", anyway.......?

Or wait--is "stressed" synonymous to "frustration"? If I sound real stupid right now, sorry, but I'm not entirely sure of this.

I have an idea for a method. It's going to cost lots of money but, i've done the math and it seems like a stable method. I'm gonna try out my method. Stay tuned.

By brakfanatic00 on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 07:46 am:

"DTM, of course scolding would have a positive effect."

By brakfanatic00 on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 08:41 am:

"Note that I NEVER said scolding had a positive effect."

Im confused.

By brakfanatic00 on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 08:43 am:

"Think of it as the inverse of Pavlov's Dog."

I dont think most people know about classical conditioning :)

Well that was hilarious... Anyway, I don't praise/scold with lv1 trainings, while it's a little rare for me to see %s lower than 70%, I see 80% and up a lot... Only in lv2+ trainings I do that; praise if above 85% with at least 4 focus arrows, and scold below 70% regardless of arrows (Never with 5 however)... I still find a monster or two gets frustrated (mainly my Fairilina...) but so far so good...

Argonic's high % raising method.

This method does not prase nor scold regardless of how well the monster does on it's drills. This method gets very high %s when drilling and keeps the monsters life span at near the maximum. It also costs lots of money so you should build up a large ammount before starting. You also need magic metals for magic level 2 gadgets.

Praise monster when success rate is at least: N/A

Scold monster when success rate is lower than: N/A

Let monster rest when: "OK", adjust so that the monster ends up fully rested after resting.

Rest for tourneys: The week of the tourney.

Rest for adventures: The week of the adventure.

Feed Monster when: OK & to adjust weight.

What shouldn't Monster ever eat?: N/A

What should he eat a lot?: Foods that adjust weight towards thin & something the monster likes.


This method has turned out very good results for me, 93% - 100% on level 2 magic drills almost every time & 70% to 80% on level 4 gadgets. The idea is to never praise or scold except to adjust the Policy to normal. Also use food to change Policy as long as it does not interfere with the weight of your monster. You want to feed your monster something that will push it towards thin that it likes, if there is nothing that it likes that will push it towards thin this method will not work very well. You also want something fattening that it will like, you give it the fattening food when it slips into thin, no matter how full it is. With oilyoil you can do 3 level 2 magic drills in a row. Be careful with the oilyoil, it seems to increase stress when used. I keep it to 1 oilyoil per month. The monster will sometimes go into frustrated after the 3rd drill in a row but goes back to Lively after resting. If you can't afford oilyoil then you could do two level 2 magic trains and a self train then rest. Scold when ever the policy slips to easyer and prase if it hits hard, ect. Also start with self drills for baby monsters, they get tired/stressed much easyer than monsters in their prime. Slow down for old monsters because they are like baby monsters.

I have only tested on one monster (Ghars(Joker/?)) at this point. He lived 3y 2m(very good for a spirt monster) I am starting 4 new monsters to test this out on tonight, I hope this will be helpful!

-Argonic

I don't know if I have the information backwards or not (after all, there IS a lot of information above), but my Gitan has right-pointing arrows and usually gets between 15-25 on level 1 training gadgets (I also use Wind Drum for 100% success from boosted Focus. It works wonders). Now, if I remember what was listed, I think it said that right-pointing arrows were bad. My other monsters with 100% success and left-pointing arrows do worse (8-17 on level 1 gadgets). Any ideas (again, I may have screwed up the information).

5 arrows pointing left is slightly better than 5 arrows pointing right.
You might have an age/stress/gain difference in there. Some monsters might take more of a fatigue hit from the Drum as well. Right pointing arrows, however, aren't bad (better off having them pointing right rather than losing one).

Title: Focused Farm Method

Short description - This Method uses the Wonder Well and Wind Drum combination and focuses only on Power and Defense Creatures with the "Iron Heart" trait and use of Oily oil to lengthen training. (Preferably Golems, Durahans, Madillos, etc.)

Number of Creatures: Maximum of Four only. Preferably one creature should have Iron Heart, though you can use Oily Oil to simulate the trait (but it costs a cr*p load of money). Also it would be preferable if the creature with Iron Heart is a combination that starts at "C" Class.

Gadgets Required:

1) Magic Sand Bag
2) Healing Tub
3) Healing Target
4) Healing Lifeblade
5) Healing Pendulum
6) Wind Drum (placed to touch all the other gadgets)
7) Wonder Well

OPTIONAL: Place in as needed
9) Additional Healing Target
8) Healing Running Mac
10) Slot Machine

Schedule for the other creatures: Train "normally", use them to earn money.

Schedule For the Iron Heart Creature:

1st Month- If possible, the ideal is for an older creature of S class to take the new C class with Iron Heart on an adventure to Promiass+ (better yet to Kawrea+ up to the 11th level) to get to adventure level 14 and so it has most of the techniques. ALso, if possible take it twice to reach adventure level 16 or higher and try to get the "good traits" like hi-power, etc.

2nd Month to 5th Month- Do light training to improve whatever stats you wish to improve. Preferably raise: Power, Def, Accuracy and Life.
Iron Heart Creatures can do 6 consecutive trainings with one oily oil.

6th Month- Test the Level 2 Devices to see if you can get better gains than level 1 Training. Most likely the Magic Sand Bag will produce decent results and you can then do One Magic Sand Bag and 3 light trainings. You can also see if the creature can do 1 Magic Sand Bag and 2 trainings with 2nd level Healing Devices.

7th Month to 1 Year and 5 Months: Use the Level 2 Devices based on the capacity of the creature-if it reaches 40% fatigue rest it. Use a 4 session training 1 rest schedule. Give oily oil after the first training to achieve this. If you don't want to use oily oil, use a 3 training 1 rest schedule.

1 year and 6 Months to 3 Years and 5 Months: Use the level 3-4 Devices when the creature has full focus bars preferably pointing to the right. Such will produce acceptable results. You can also try if pointing to the left, but it will probably yield lower results.

An Iron Heart creature can with one oily oil after the level 4 training do 2 level 2 trainings before rest. It can also do a second level 4 if its focus is still full, but this is not advisable.

Try to give equal attention over time to Power, Defense and Accuracy. Raise life as you see fit. By the 3rd year, the creature should have Pow, Def and Accuracy in the 850+ region, and should max out. You can then focus more on life training.

With regard to Battles, as a rule of the thumb try to raise your monster's rank every 6 months until he reaches S.


Praise monster when success rate is at least: Since the wind drum often boosts their focus and allows constant gains in the 95-100% for level 2 devices, praise as you see fit, but often giving watermelon or vitamin is enough on a regular basis.

Scold monster when success rate is lower than: 80% for Level 2 Devices. For Level 3 and 4, I suggest you reload and do a lighter training.

You may want to scold or give items disliked to maintain "normal" policy, but it is not a must.

Let monster rest when: Fatigue is near to the 40% mark. (near to but not over the second focus arrow )

Rest for tourneys: If Fatigue is below 20% you can tourney anyway. Just make sure creature is Lively give either energy bar or vitamin.

Rest for adventures: If Fatigue is below 20% you can go anyway. Otherwise rest. ALso make sure creature is lively by giving energy bar or vitamin.

Feed Monster when: Gauge is at half.

What shouldn't Monster ever eat?: N/A

What should he eat a lot?: Watermelon. or Peach if the monster doesn't like watermelon.

When Chubby or Fat feed vitamins until back to normal. I noticed (though I have not actually experimented on this) that fat creatures seem to tire more easily and will not be able to do as many training sessions.

There is still a lot that I have to learn about monster raising, but I think that this method works well enough. I haven't tried raising POW orINT with SPD creatures that much yet, but I think this method can be modified to focus on them.

Dura han, Dura han,
does whatever a Dura can
Swings his blade, lays them low
Death follows with every blow.
Watch out here comes a Dura han!

What are your results with this method? So you can do 1 x level 4 + 2 x level 2 using healing medals on a Iron Heart monster without too much stress? And still do well on the training? What kind of monsters does this method produce stat composite wise?

The last monster I raised using it was a Durahan with the following stats:

Corum -Durahan/Antlan- 4yrs and 2 Mos
Power: 999
Def: 999
Accuracy:999
Life: 563
Spd: 104
Int: 77

Adventure Level 20
Traits: Super weapon, Heavy Armor, Fire Lore, Ice Lore+, Wind Lore +, Iron Heart, Golden Foot, Hi Energy

Corum managed to defeat Ghost Genocide in Kawrea+ by himself as a last act of valor before retiring.

As you see, the SPD and INT really take a beating. But considering that the method aims at increasing the monster's "strong" attributes its a necessary sacrifice. The short time (3.5 years effectively with the remainder for adventuring) given for raising monsters means you want to focus on what they do best, in this case the Durahan does quite well in POW, DEF and ACC, so thats what you raise.

I a currently raising another Durahan (Seraph) and I'm recording the weekly training schedules and results with percentages. I hope to post them soon.

Right now the Durahan can get the following:

wk 1 Lv 4 Healing Pendulum: Def: +30 Power: +19 (80%)-Give Oily Oil
wk 2 Healing Lifeblade: +17 Life (100%)
wk 3 Healing Lifeblade: +17 Life (100%)
wk 4 Rest

I've found that watermelon as reported on this site really does help lower stress a lot, also the healing devices complement the effect.

For the other creatures, alternating a magic training and then a healing training allows the fatigue to stay within tolerable limits.

Your "method" seems feasable, and I do not doubt your monster. I really like how you utilise the "6-8 factor" in gains (you have all noticed this, right? When a monster has a 6-8 statgain in a stat, the monster gains less fatigue from training. My Chaos Dragon, during stage 2/3, could do 2 Magic sandbags and a level 1 training easily [about 35-45% fatigue]. This is obviously due to the fact that he has an 8 gain in power, because when I trained accuracy, fatigue rose much faster. If I ever get around to not enjoying myself while you guys are all playing MR DS, I may work on it to prove it.).However, there are some issues with it:

1: It's sort of breed specific. Which isn't a good thing. We all learn...

2: You feed when the monster is at 50% full. You could scrap doing one of the healing trainings, and do something more beneficial if you fed at 75%, which, honestly, is a good thing. Food has been shown to help focus, and obviously, reduce stress. If you feed more often, you could also give foods such as Energy Bar, which reduce fatigue (though, only in a tiny amount).

3: You gauge things in months. Different monsters have different lifespans, which will increase/decrease their life stages. Gauging by life stage (the warnings) and gains (the more consistantly you get the maximum, the more likely you should kick it up a notch) could definately prove beneficial to you.

Thanks for your comments Infernus.

1) As for being breed specific, I agree, its not for everyone. Though I will eventually try to adjust it for other creatures. But thats part of the idea of focusing the farm, you raise similar creatures with similar strengths, that way you can eliminate some gadgets like the trampoline and book. Also, I'm too lazy to to switch around gadgets to cater to different creatures.:)

2)On feeding at 50%, I agree that there are times you want to feed the monster a bit more. Its just that its situational, like before a tourney or adventuring, or if you'd like to do a level 4 training and the monster's fullness bar isn't at over 75%. I'll try to work on a more detailed guideline on that if I can.

3)With regard to lifespans, I agree, the method doesn't cater to everyone here, but it was never supposed to. However, I will take the life stages ito consideration to add details, when I have time, to the method posted. Also, if I get around to trying to tweak the method for other types of creatures, such will definitely be part of it.

First, I agree with Infernus on the point that
Feeding at 75% would be beneficial in lowering stress which along with the tiredness level will lower the gains from consecutive trainings. Considering that your method uses healing devices to make possible multiple training sessions, it would be best to feed as much stress reducing food as possible while balancing with vitamins. Carrot is the best food for this because it lowers stress -30 while only giving +20 form.

Second, I have something to add to make the focused farm method apply for most kinds of creatures: just make sure that for all stats that should be raised which have base gains of just 1 to 6 use healing devices because they wont benefit as much from the added "effect" gain of magic devices. Only use the magic devices on the stats which have base gains of 7-8 because it enables them to get 27 pt gains when combined with winddrum. By having the correct mix of healing and magic devices a focused farm can be made for several stereotypes: int/speed; power/speed; int;def - you may not be able to make an effective power/int creature however because of the limit of ranch capacity

Third, with regard to lifespans - i noticed that irondatu does gauge things in life stages but only the life stages of a durahan... just adjust it to suit the life stages of whatever creature is raised and it should work in my opinion

+20 form? That's a 2. Watermelon is actually better. -40 stress and +3 form. Along with an extra 100 points of "fullness".

Also, the healing gadgets are stress reducers, not fatigue reducers, which the way you worded your sentence seems to imply.

As for your "Only use the magic devices on the stats which have base gains of 7-8 because it enables them to get 27 pt gains when combined with winddrum" comment...
It is possible to get +27 on magic level 2's without the Wind Drum. It is also possible to do this when your monster has a 6 gain. In all my cases, it is impossible for monsters with a 5 gain to get +27 on magiced level 2's without the Bragma Statue (which is the one that increases effectiveness, not the Wind Drum, all the Wind Drum does is keep focus high).

Iron_Datu did not gauge things in lifestages, they said amounts of time. If someone is training that particular Durahan inproperly, stages may go faster.

Some questions with regard to life stages and training:

1) Is it improper to start giving level four training to a monster who has recieved the message that "how we raise it at this point will decide victory or defeat" (Not the exact wording)?

2) Should such training instead be administered when the monster recieves the message that it is "very mature and we have to train to keep up with it"?

I have observed that monsters (without iron heart) get good gains (+30 def/+20-24 pow) and less fatigued (relative to when it is younger) when at this age when given training with the pendulum.

Also, I have noted that monsters (without iron heart) with 4 year life spans like the Durahan (Vesuvius and Hermes), Blobster, Battlerocks, Gobi, Red and Yellow Antlan, and Beaklon can get similarly high gains starting at One Year and Five Months though with more fatigue.

3) Is there any data on how training equipment can reduce life spans if used "improperly"?

1) Starting level 4's in stage 2 is okay, IMO. I personally just wouldn't do it as much, and would only start late in the stage. That's probably a matter of opinion.

2) You should use that training in stage 3, yes indeedy. This is your monsters strongest point.

Monsters with a 4+ year lifespan capabilities? So all but Joker and Phoenix. At 1yr5mo, most monsters would still be in stage 2, so it would be harder on them, thus giving more fatigue.

3) Sort of. Using them improperly causes excess stress/hunger/fatigue, which can reduce lifespan. It's a spinoff effect. This can be found in the "Research on game mechanics" section.

Thank you for the informative answers Infernus!

This gives me considerable food for thought. I will give your suggestions a go with the Blobster (no iron heart) I am raising.

Just to tie in the observations to training Iron Heart Monsters, it seems they can be trained at 1 year and five months with less fatigue on level four training though, so it seems okay to give it to them on a more frequent basis.

By the way, I noticed (but have not experimented/documented on)that the effects of a level four training early on can cause a huge reduction in focus (2 arrows and sometimes a reversal of direction)

1) Concerning the carrot, yes the +20 form that i wrote was wrong, sorry about that but my point just was that you can give the monsters carrot more often without worrying about form than you could watermelon and since iron heart creatures can do so many trainings in a row you will need to feed them very often. But indeed, i agree and consider watermelon the best food overall
2) As for my implying that healing devices reduce fatigue - I agree they do not reduce fatigue they only ease stress, but my point was when dealing with an iron heart monster often the reason for stopping training is stress because they are more resistant to fatigue thats why i recommended healing devices for the stats that they do not perform so well in because it is difficult for them to gain 27 to 30 in those stats. Though i might have made the range 1-5 for healing and 6-8 for magic. I am not saying healing is the best type of device I am only saying that it works well for the method Iron Datu was talking about
3) I do agree that improper breeding speeds up the life cycles, thank you for your suggestion on finding out more about this. I did notice though that creatures with iron heart who do more training live just as long as creatures who do less training. What are the maximum lifespans of durahans and golems by the way?

Petit-Trot posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 11:56 am:

What are your results with this method? So you can do 1 x level 4 + 2 x level 2 using healing medals on a Iron Heart monster without too much stress? And still do well on the training? What kind of monsters does this method produce stat composite wise?
________________________________________________

As an addendum to my earlier post (Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 06:07 pm) as to the kind of monster that can be produced, and also to clarify that the method I outlined is not only for raising Durahans, though I must say I am partial to them :P let me list the 3 other creatures (non-Iron Heart) produced alongside Corum (Iron-Heart):

1) Gigantor (Golem/Durahan)4yrs2mo: Life 420,Pow 940, Def 954, Acc 655, Spd 100 and Int 54.

2) Seth III (Naga/?) 4yrs1mo: Life 443 Pow: 890, Def: 905, Acc 727, Spd 89 and Int 68.

3) Omega X (Red Antlan Ranger) 4yrs: Life 425,
Pow 743, Def 725, Acc 731, Spd 205 and Int 74.

These creatures did not recieve oily oil (since such was reserved for the iron heart monster) on a regular basis and ate primarily watermelon (except for the naga who ate Peach) with vitamins to keep their form normal. Their training schedule was based on resting at 40% fatigue.

The nice thing about focusing your farm/ranch to suit similar creatures with similar strengths is they can all do well with minimum effort and fuss. Also, you can include double gadgets for Stats that you want to focus on by getting rid of superfluous things like book and trampoline.

Happy ranching!

I have some preliminary data on the focused farm method for raising the Pure Durahan -Seraph. I hope to post something more detailed at a later date.

I started recording his training sessions at 5 Months when he started to do Level 2 training. Prior to that he did all Level 1 training only. His stats at 5 Months of age are as follows:

Pow: 212 (999)
Lif: 139 (503)
Int: 98 (64)
Acc: 218 (999)
Def:214 (999)
Spd: 76 (76)

Adv. Lvl: 16

Traits:
Super Weapon
Heavy Armor
Iron Heart
Water Lore
Fire Lore
Wind Lore
Machismo
Hi Counter

Figures in brackets are stats for retirement at 4yrs3mos.

This Durahan was shrined from the book and started at level E. While he was 1-2 Months of age, he went on 3 adventures to Promiass+ and Kawrea+. It was during those adventures that he got the "Iron Heart" trait.

Using the said method Seraph trained (from 5 months of age) for 128 weeks (69.94%) with 55 weeks (30.05%)of rest. During those 55 weeks of rest, he also did the 24 tournaments from "E" to "S" rank.

He trained as follows:

Level 1: Shadowbox: 1x (1)

Level 2: Magic Sandbag: 25x (avg gain: 22.16)
Healing Target: 40x (avg: 17.325)
Healing Lifeblade: 19x (avg: 14.631)
Healing Tub: 22x (avg: 17.59)

The average success rate for level 2 was: 93%

Level 3: Slot Machine: 1x (acc 27)

Level 4: Healing Pendulum: 16x
Avg Gain: def:24.875 / pow:14.8

Running Mac: 4x
Avg Gain: lif:21.5 / acc:15.25

I'm not sure if more level 3 training would have been better. But that's something for another weekend.

"We shall not be saved without wisdom, for though knowledge is power, only wisdom is liberty"

Iron_Datu

i am really interested in your methods. as of now, i am trying my own version, including:
1 aroma pot
1 sweet incense
1 bragma statue
-within range of:
1 magic phonograph
1 healing thunder mac
1 magic sand bag
1 healing pendulum
1 healing flying target
you may notice my ranch trains both int and pow creatures, but i am only doing this as a transition to training int creatures. after my last pow creatures die off (1 genocider, 1 beegator, 1 garu), i will be removing the h. pendulum and m. sandbag, and do full time INT training.

i have been training diff pow creatures for the past 5+ years inc. 2 dragons (dr/dr, dr/joker), 2 beaklons (bea/bea, bea/ogyo), 2 golems (gol/gol, gol/dur), 2 durahan (dur/dur, dur/joker), 1 antlan (ant/gol) and 1 raiden (rai/rai). but to no avail. i am currently depressed to say that none of them were able to reach 999 in three stats. my worst experiment was with my rollbeat, who had 999 acc and 999 def but had 130 pow. ("okay, i hit the adv+ enemy! 35 pts of damage! this is going to take a while!"). my best 3 were my dragon, golem and battle rocks.
dragon
999 def
900 pow
400 acc
battle rocks
999 def
999 pow
300 acc
golem
999 def
999 pow
650 acc
as you can see, just plain depressing. the main reason they don't reach a 999 in the third stat is they die. by the way, my ranch had different gadgets while i was training these last monsters. (i only put in the m. phonograph and h. thunder mac NOW to give way to my phoenix *found one in kawrea* and lilim, since i've resigned pow monsters). my gadgets back when i was focused on training pow creatures were:
1 aroma pot
1 sweet incense
1 bragma statue
-within range of:
1 magic sandbag
1 magic fan
1 magic moving target
1 magic pendulum

last 1 item either 1 aidkit (when zooming through tourneys), 1 gadamon sta (adv +, good help) or 1 regular life blade, which i found useless later on.

my strategy with this setting was:
1) leech off exp with big brother monsters in high level adventure
2) train with either balance or lifeblade to stage 2 or 300 life, whichever comes first
3) train in m. moving tgt till acc 999, def 500+
4) train in m. pendulum till def 999 (since it started at 500+, it won't take too long), and power will also be raised to about 200-300 at the same time
5) train in m. sandbag to give way to the next monsters

what this will look like is an assembly line. first, monster A will work LIFE. then he moves to ACC, while monster B does LIFE. then monster A does DEF while monster B does ACC and monster C starts at LIFE. and so on and so forth.
later on i realized that it was wrong to start with ACC without power (they sucked at tourneys) so i altered it a bit. it went this way:
1) train to 300 Life
2) train to lvl 25 Power (sandbag)
3) train to lvl 50 Acc
4) train to lvl 50 Def
5) TRY to reach lvl 50 str (fan)
thing is, i won't reach step 5. they'd die.
finally, i changed it to include more shifts.
1) train to 300 Life
2) train to lvl 25 Pow (sandbag)
3) train to lvl 25 Acc
4) train to lvl 25 Def
*by this time, pow wouldn't be lvl 25 anymore because the Def training also raised Pow. Also, Def won't start in the early lvl 10's since it was raised in Acc training).
5) train to lvl 50 Acc while attaining lvl 40+ Def
6) train to lvl 50 Def while attaining lvl 40+ Pow

sounds good at this point? yeah. i'd be feeling good, too. but you see, this is where they die. reaching only about lvl 43 Pow but lvl 50 Def and Acc. this has happened too often that i'm trying my luck on int creatures, and also, *lo and behold! a gift from the wise!* your method. i overworked my poor monsters. my golem's lifespan shrank to exactly 3 years and 7 months. someone in the other thread claimed his/hers reached 4 years 2 mos. imagine when my dragons died! depressing. but, i did learn my lessons and am shifting to healing medals for non-offensive stats. just something i found intersting tho:
even at 70% success rate, my monsters would gain +30 in two stats (acc and def or def and pow or pow and spd) with the level 4 magic gadget under the bragma statue. i kid you not. you should watch those dials turn! =) but then again, i couldn't have what you guys have, 999 in three stats..
which leaves me with this last line..
HEEEEEEELP!!! (any advise, please???)


---------
who's your jedi master?!

diaboros,

one of the big questions here is : did the monsters you train have the iron heart trait? If so did you give them oily oil on every cycle of training? Were you able to give them one of the good traits when adventuring like hi-energy, hi-accuracy etc? Were they generation 1 creatures or recombined? There are several prerequisites for using the discussed method.

Iron_Datu,

they did have the iron heart trait. at least my dragon and golem did. my battle rocks did not so he rested more often. i am quite lost on using the oily oil though. recently i have just discovered (yes, i am a noob..) about food and items lessening the stress on the monsters (i thought the nuggets were just for selling) so i'm trying to keep them off the "frustrated" state. i just don't know when to go for the oily oil and when to go for the goldoll sword. because sometimes they are well rested and everything but they're frustrated so they don't succeed as well as they used to. they also are a bit spoiled since i fully rest them, even though i rest them for two weeks, just to get them back to lively. they did get the good traits, since i bring them to lvl 20.. about the generation 1 creatures, well, i am also a bit confused with that. usually i would just get two monsters from the book (like a pink golem and a battle rocks) then combine them with a life stone or acc stone, depending on the breed weakness, so i guess that's recombined (???) i am thinking though that i stress them too much, which is why i'm trying out the healing medals as you have shown. only i don't really know when to shift. i mean, when the monster has full focus, i let them use the magic gadget but i rest them when their focus drops to 3 and below, esp. when already facing right. i tried to make them use the healing gadgets when the focus dropped but that only lessened the focus more, so i tried to balance it with a good scolding. the scolding would increase the focus but my monster will be frustrated or irritated with me. then at this point i would be totally lost and fully rest them till they're lively (as if to start from scratch). i know i waste too much time getting on their good side but i don't know how else to go by it..

sorry that should have been to Darkdatu

Diabros' Chew Toy,

Salutations! I am presently working on a more comprehensive rewrite of the method I outlined. I have data on a Durahan and a Battlerocks that I raised that I am trying to integrate. It's just that I have some pressing academic matters to handle first...

In the meantime, might I offer the following suggestions.

What have you been feeding your monsters? I suggest you stick to Watermelon (this reduces frustration greatly), with Vitamins (to keep form normal) and Energy Bars (for various situations) as supplements.

With regard to training and oily oil, I do One Level 2 and give an oily oil and then Three more Level 2 Trainings(you may have to feed during this time as well) then rest.

For Level 4 training, I do One Level 4 and Give an Oily oil and then (depending on Focus) either do One More level 4 or Two Level 2s then rest.

Oily oil costs a lot so I have never raised more than one Iron Heart using the method at a time.

With regard to Stress and Frustration, I suggest that you read the various threads available on this site to give you further insight. I have the following rough guidelines(so I cannot assure you that they will work):

1) Feed Watermelon or Peach
2) Praise helps. Praise during the third or fourth level 2 training or after the first level 4.Try to reach a situation where praise per se can make the creature "OK".
3) Give them Items they like to assist Praise in bringing the creature to "OK" status.
4)Use the wonder well
5) I don't scold unless the creature does poorly in training or if I'm going to adventure it as the lead creature.

Ultimately though, you have to observe and experiment so you get an "intuition" about the various creatures temperments and corresponding needs.

By the way, I notice you don't use the wonder-well wind drum combination. I have not used the aroma pot, so I do not know much about its effects, nor can I say that the method outlined will work with it.

As for the Bragma Statue, I recently started using it so, I concur that it can boost gains, though I have not yet seen a +30/+30 gain with a level 4 gadget (though I hope I will).

diaboros ct,

what i meant by are you using a recombined creature is that to get the optimal stats the monster should be a recombination of two level S creatures , even better if the two creatures have a high friendship level (but the difference in stats is not significant enough to spend too much time on this). Also make sure you are using one of the breeds which has high base gains in the primary stats you want to raise (there is a thread for this) for example a hermes duruhan/antlan has very high gains in power, defense and accuracy - if you used a plain golem however you would have a much harder time raising the accuracy. Only do the level 4 training when the creature has a full focus bar... either to the left or right but i find better results when its leaning to the right. Follow the oily oil schedule as outlined by iron_datu and you know youre doing well with the stress if one bout of praising can get the frustrated creature back to ok... the watermelon really helps but if the creature is prone to getting fat or doesnt like watermelon use carrot. The method outlined will not work if you do not have copious amounts of cash so you can oily oil whenever needed.

Iron_Datu,

i have been giving them a diet of watermelons and carrots, depending on their fullness. i also make use of vitamins to keep them out of the chubby state (even though garu sez "eeeyuuck!")

i've begun to use the oily oil (i find at least 6 at promiass with a monster with lucky star trait).

my monsters still don't like me. guess i have to lower my standards a bit. i currently praise 70+ and scold 70below regardless of fullness bar. only an irritated monster will stop me from scolding though. don't want them running away. they hate my guts. maybe it has something to do with me scolding them for low success rates even though it's their first time to make use of a level 4 gadget in their second stage of life. (slave driver, i know, but i'm really aiming for monsters like yours)

as for the wonderwell-wind drum combo, i have yet to find the proper tablets for appraisal. ("hmm... sorry,i have already appraised this training gadget." really annoys me but i'm still looking). the bragma statue magic lvl4(+30/+30) worked but i guess it was because my policy is usually "harder." they must please me.

lastly, i guess you're right about the "intuition" thing. there's really no exact method without exceptions. besides, following such a script is quite tedious. no fun in that. your guidelines are very helpful though. =)

Darkdatu,

if that's recombining then yes, i have done that. once. recombined RageRock S - Aero S with "inseparable" for affinity. my mistake was regenerating a quintie. sure, born class C with good stats and everything but she was too sassy for me so i buried her ***. no freezer, just retired. didn't want to go through that whole thing again (i have a lot to learn about good combinations, yes?) i tried the pure golem because im guessing pure breeds have longer lifespans (if there is a thread about lifespans of every breed in MR4, i'm sorry i did not find it yet.. i'll keep looking.. =) ) will try hermes next if i can somehow duplicate Iron_Datu's method. thanks for the tip.


------------------
"All hail the Datus for sharing wisdom!" Kudos.

Darkdatu,

btw, found the statgain and guts regen table. very very helpful. whoo-hah! =)

Title: Focused Farm Method 1.1

Short description - This Method uses the Wonder Well and Wind Drum combination and focuses only on Power and Defense Creatures with the "Iron Heart" trait and use of Oily oil to lengthen training. It aims, at most, to get Power, Defense and Accuracy to Level 50 (999) with a decent amount of Life (400-500).

Creature Preference: As stated, POW and DEF creatures (please see the thread on this) are the main beneficiaries. Creatures that have benefited from this method so far are Durahans (Pure, Antlan and Dragon sub breeds), Golem (Pure and Durahan Sub Breed), Beaklon (Pure), Red Antlan Ranger, Naga (Blobster), and Madillo (Mr. Fujiyama).

NOTE on LIFESPANS: This method generally works for POW/DEF creatures with 4 year lifespans. I have tested this on (non Iron heart) Jells and Mogis and they suffered reduced lifespans. I have also raised Joker sub-breeds, but their life spans are short, so I do not recommend them for this.

Prerequisites:

1) You have finished the game already and have creatures with the capacity to go to Promiass Ruins on Adventure+
2) Limit your creatures to 4, One of the creatures should have the Iron Heart Trait.
3) The Iron Heart creature should preferably be a combination that starts at "C" Class. I wrote this for creatures starting at C.
4) You have money to give an Oily oil to the Iron heart at least once per month (For 3 yrs and 6 mos that’s 210,000, you will need more if you plan to give it to the other creatures as well)
5) The Creatures MUST have good gains in POW and DEF particularly because there is no room for gadgets training INT and SPD.

Gadgets Required:

The following will be cycled in and out of the ranch as needed:

1) Magic Sand Bag (MSbag)
2) Healing Tub (HTub)
3) Healing Target AND/OR Magic Target (HTgt/MTgt)
4) Healing Lifeblade (HLb)
5) Healing Pendulum (HPend)

The following should always be on the ranch:

6) Wind Drum (placed to touch as many of the other gadgets as possible)
7) Bragma Statue (placed to touch as many of the other gadgets as possible)
8) Wonder Well

Schedule for the other creatures: Train "normally" (meaning they should be given whatever pattern of training you see fit, AND the use of training gadgets by the Iron Heart always takes precedence over theirs), use them to earn money.

Schedule for the Iron Heart Creature:

Initial Ranch Layout: Since the Iron Heart will not be able to train using Level 2 Devices much less anything higher, the layout will depend on the age of your other creatures. Usually I find that the Level 4 Device is easy to cycle out in favor of having a Magic and a Healing Target since ACC levelling is a priority.

1st Month to 3rd Month: Adventuring is the Priority. An older creature of S class should take the new C class with Iron Heart on adventures to Promiass+ (better yet to Kawrea+ up to the 11th level) to get to adventure level 14 so that it has most of its’ tech set. Also, it is advisable to adventure it to level 16 or higher and try to get the "good traits" like hi-technique. For those of you who really want an Uber Creature you could exit just before leveling up to Level 16 and then reload until you get the desired trait.

2nd Month to 5th Month: The creature can do 6 Level 1 Trainings of your choice consecutively. Remember to give Oily Oil after Two Trainings. You may want to adventure during this time though, so it is not necessary to DO the six Lvl 1 training schedule.

6th Month- Test the Level 2 Devices to see if you can get better gains than level 1 Training. Most likely the Magic Sand Bag will produce decent results (a gain of 15+) You can then do One Magic Sand Bag and 3 Lvl 1 trainings. Alternatively, the creature might be able to do 1 Magic Sand Bag and 2 Lvl 2 Healing Device trainings. Check which will net you more gains.

7th Month to 1 Year and 5 Months: Use a 4 Lvl 2 training 1 rest schedule- ( i.e; MSbag, HTgt, HTgt, HLb, Rest). Give oily oil after the first training.

1 year and 6 Months to 3 Years and 5 Months: Cycle in the Healing Pendulum. I prefer removing the HTgt. Use the Healing Pendulum when the creature has full focus bars. The schedule for such a situation should be HPend+Oily oil, Lvl2, Lvl2, Rest OR HPend+Oily oil (+food-optional), HPend, Rest—do this ONLY IF FOCUS IS HIGH after the first training.

If focus is not full, or if it is and you cannot get a good result (70% or higher), use the 4 Lvl 2 training 1 rest schedule.

3 Years and 6 Months onwards: Gains will decrease and the HPend will not yield good results by this time. Phase out the HPend and do only Lvl1 or Lvl2 Training. By 3 years and 10 Months you might want to go adventuring frequently until the creature retires.

STAT TRAINING PRIORITY: Try to give equal attention over time to Power, Defense and Accuracy. Raise life as you see fit. By the middle to end of the 3rd year, the creature should have Pow, Def and Accuracy in the 850+ region, and will max out. You can then focus more on life training.

The following are the suggested Number of Trainings Per Gadget:
1) HPend training should be maximized to raise Def and Pow quickly. Around 16 to 20 trainings is advisable.
2) MSbag training – 15 to 25 (Depends on success with HPend)
3) MTgt and HTgt Training –30 to 40 (Depends on whether you have Hi Technique)
4) HLb Training – 20+
5) HTub Training- 15 to 25 (Depends on success with HPend)
6) Lvl 1 Training- Around 20

BATTLES: Raise your monster's rank every 6 months until he reaches S. Treat a Battle as a Lv4 training for purposes of scheduling, so the creature can do the following:

1) Lv2+Oily Oil+Battle, Lv2, Rest
2) Rest+Battle, Lv 2, Lv2, Rest

You can also treat Adventuring in the same manner.

MANAGING STRESS LEVELS: The heavy training regimen of this method causes significant stress. That is why the Wonder well and Healing Gadgets are important. In order to avoid the “frustrated” status or worse “irritated”, I use the following guidelines (however I cannot guarantee they will work for every temperment or even creature type):

1) Try to get your creature to “OK” status if “Frustrated”, use Praise, if the status remains give a bribe (item creature likes). If the creature still remains “Frustrated” try one more Praise, then continue to weekend.
2) If the creature gets “Irritated” consider resting twice in a row.
3) In order to follow a Lvl 4 training with another Lvl 4 training give both Oily oil and food, if Focus becomes or remains at 5 bars, then you can proceed.
4) Feeding snacks helps reduce stress. I consider Energy Bars and Vitamins (for some creatures) as snacks. You can give these instead of a bribe.

Following this can lead to having an easy, easier, etc policy. You may want to scold when the creature is resting to change the policy. Sometimes scolding three or more times can get you back to normal, but be careful since it may frustrate the creature.

FEEDING: Feed only Watermelon or Peach (If the creature doesn’t like watermelon). As a General Rule I feed when the Gauge is at half. However, in order to manage stress you may want to give Vitamins or Energy Bars, and also to increase focus.

FORM: When the creature is Chubby or Fat feed vitamins until back to Normal. I believe that fat creatures are fatigued more easily and will not be able to do as many training sessions.

Iron_Datu

wow, this is detailed. do i understand this right though? that praise will be used to level the monster's condition from frustrated to ok instead of using it as a form of reward for a successful training? what will happen then to a lively creature who just got an 80+% on training? will he still get praised? i'm no expert on this, but won't this confuse the monster?

just a thought. =)

Of course it would be ideal to get your monster to lively status most of the time. What's important, imho, near the tail end of a training cycle is to remove the frustrated status. Rest will then make the monster lively.

On level 2 devices the wind drum will give percentages over 90% in my experience, so the 80% situation will not arise. For level 1 training getting below 80% might merit scolding.

I think the point there is: with the wind drum/wonderwell combination you should hardly ever get below 90% on level 2 training, so there is no reason to praise everytime. The main use of praising in this method is to counteract the effects of stress which cause the frustrated/irritated status. This is because for iron heart creatures fatigue is less an issue so you can do so much training that frustration sets in even if they are not tired. Use food and praise to counteract this. The ideal situation would be for one praising or one feeding to take a creature back to "ok" status or even lively.
In fact you should scold a creature who gets 70 - 80% when doing lvl 2 training with the winddrum/wonderwell combination.

interesting. i've really got to go look for those gadgets. thanks for the info, Darkdatu.

Until "most important phase," train in the two highest and two lowest stats, however possible, resting every third week. Check every season or so and switch out training when something gets high enough not to qualify for two lowest.
Once monster reaches "most important phase," change to training only the highest stat and either life or defence. (If the highest stat is one of these, train in both.)
Praise only for 90% and above. Scold for 70% and below, unless hungry or fatiged. But, if hungry, give it a food it doesn't particularly like. (Doesn't have to be its least favorite, just not something it likes.)
Got to tourneys ASAP.
Only go exploring if you rested your monsters that week.

Hey Iron you say feed them a peach if they don't like watermelon, but carrots give +100 to fullness -2 more to form and -10 more stress than them

@At the Comp

Haven't been playing anything lately, so I can't really test out whether carrots would be better if a creature doesn't like watermelon. But if I remember correctly carrots make creatures slimmer faster so there would be form issues. But do experiment, after all there is still much to do.

@Lisa Shock, Infernus, and assorted great ones, demi gods and cool people

Hi guys! Nice to see the site alive and well. I've joined the capitalist defense force- otherwise known as a law firm, awwwww. Anyway I hope to play EVO and MR4 some time ha ha ha I wish. Keep up the good work!

Hey guys, I'm new to monster Rancher 4 and when I got the game I didn't get an instruction booklet. This game added a bunch of new stuff to the series and I am lost as to what some of the things do exactly. I couldn't figure out how to post directly so I decided to respond to this post. I have a few questions that I would be happy to know if someone could help me out.

1.) What is the difference between the focus bars arrows pointing this way < < < < or this way > > > >? I noticed it changes. What kinds of effects does this have?

2.) Why do monsters just negate an attack randomly? Some wierd shield just pops up. Is that how defense works now? Or is it a random occurance?

3.) How can you tell if your monsters like eachother? I read about that on the forums and I was curious.

4.) what does it mean when the guy who does the Saucer Stones says that my mood is preventing the CD from opening up the monster inside? How can I open it up? I got this effect off the (Doom the movie dvd)

5.) What is the fastest way to build Bonding?

6.) My monsters frequently become frustrated after I scold them for getting below 60%. Is it ok for me to give them items to negate this effect or will that spoil them and subsequently lower their overall effectiveness in training?

7.) I read that a lot of people like to build their monsters skills all up to level 10. Is this wise? They do this before focusing on the other primary stats.

Thank you for reading my post.

1: Read the archive.
2: Read the archive.
4: Read the archive.

For those three, you're still going to have to read the archive. That's how things are done here if we've already answered a question.

3: Press O for Data, select the Breeder sub-menu, and go to page number 4.

5: Spend lots of time with your monster. :P
Seriously, a lot of this comes down to time, and judging by some of my monsters, how well your raising style meshes with their temperment.

6: Giving them items is fine, but unless the item gets rid of enough stress, it's not going to negate the stress induced by a scolding.
For more information:
Monster Rancher Metropolis: Monster Rancher 4 Archive (PS2): Items

7: This is a matter of preferance - I've never done it myself.

So 1-3 are answered in the Archives? Because before I posted I was looking for this information and couldn't find it. I was hoping I could get some friendly advice and not just get thrown to the archives.

No, 1,2,4 (four, not three) are answered in the archives. They're long posts too.

1: Monster Rancher Metropolis: Monster Rancher 4 Archive (PS2): Research on game mechanics: Focus Tests

2: Circumstantial, I was thinking of a trait but it could be just the case that some moves are reacted to differently.

Monster Rancher Metropolis: Monster Rancher 4 Archive (PS2): FAQ: Battle effects

It's not finished, either (Barrier would have been what I expected). Sadface.

4: Monster Rancher Metropolis: Monster Rancher 4 Archive (PS2): FAQ: How to Unlock All Main Breeds

There, number two is probably my fault, but it still took me about thirty seconds to find all those threads. That's not because I knew where they were (I haven't looked for any of them in months, and my memory for where every thread on MRM is lacking).

The only reason I actually looked them up is because I was tired (I don't want to go through the reasons why I wasn't the one who was supposed to be looking them up, and I would probably make myself sound about a hundred times meaner than I would ever want), but they were blatantly obvious.

The next time you find yourself in a situation like this, you're the one finding them, not me.

And remember, I'm not mean, just grumpy, tired, sarcastic, and bitter.

:P